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Match Thread: Port Vale v Grimsby Town


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Just now, Nofinikea said:

If you read what I have posted without jumping into defensive "unhinged" or "conspiracist" mode I have already told you.

Askey is a professional, he is methodical and he is not an excuse merchant, he takes responsibility.  He has been knifed, badly knifed but he has taken responsibility for his own failure to deal with it, although he never had a chance truth be told.  This is what professional people do, whilst others are looking around for excuses they look at there own failings instead because that's ultimately the only thing they can change.  You will never hear John Askey blame anybody but John Askey.  He has been let down, and it is Port Vales loss.

Why didn't Carol know then? Is she that ignorant of her own company?

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I wouldn't overly get carried away as this is our worst team for as long as I can remember. You really didn't have to play well to beat us though and I think you have far more tougher challenges to co

Worrall creates all 3 goals. Get him off, should be scoring.

Shout out too to Adam Yates. Excellent, sensible summary on the game throughout. Well done lads. We can do it when we apply ourselves.

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Or did Carol know and promoted Sinclair regardless?

Pick one

1) Carol doesn't know that 'knifings' are happening under her own nose, and sacked a manager without finding out

2) Carol supported said 'knifing'

One or the other. Make your choice. 

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Just now, Nofinikea said:

Mutiny?  Again you show your green nature to these things.  It doesn't take mutiny, it takes a seed, thats all, a seed.  Dressing rooms are by there very nature a room full of egotistical men.  A seed is all that is needed at the right time to the right person.

Answer the question.

Why was Carol not aware of Sinclair's 'knifing'? Ignorance, or did she just accept it?

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Posted (edited)

Am I the only one going nuts here?

Did Carol support Sinclair's knifing, or was she ignorant of it? It's one or the other.

Either way, nofinikea is really giving her a kicking tonight.

Edited by Joe B
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15 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

When you have been around a bit and seen work places for a few years you will understand just how easily one piece of rotten fruit can turn the whole bowl.  Especially if that piece of fruit gets to an already disgruntled, respected figure first.

I have been around a fair few workplaces in a few industries... strong leaders and good managers can identify bad apples, bring them back into line under their vision, politic their way around them or are brave enough to call them out and have them removed.

In a tough industry like football, where there is always a challenger after your job, to crumble like Askey did shows he wasn’t the right man I’m afraid. 

Our most successful manager ever, used to change his assistant frequently so they never came after his job.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Thats what you boil it all down to is it Joe?   You were questioning Carol's judgement before she sacked Askey now she is pure as the driven snow again....  

Carol hasn't done anything wrong, she has acted with the facts she has got.  Its as simple as that.

I never questioned Carol's judgement before he was sacked. I wanted him to go, but understood her position. I think she's fantastic.

Ok - so your view is that Sinclair 'knifed' Askey, Carol was unaware, and Carol didn't deign to investigate the downturn in form, and no one within the club was aware, apart from the playing squad, Sinclair, and Askey? She then sacked the manager without finding out that he was being undermined? And no one ever mentioned such a knifing so substantial it led to us to plummet down the table?

Is that correct?

 

Edited by Joe B

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25 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

When you have been around a bit and seen work places for a few years you will understand just how easily one piece of rotten fruit can turn the whole bowl.  Especially if that piece of fruit gets to an already disgruntled, respected figure first.

You see, when you try to belittle this in the way you have done here, it only highlights your own lack of worldliness.  Now you will start crying about me picking on your chosen profession again but the truth is, you have never left the classroom.  You went to school, higher education and then back to school again and it shows in the way you post.  You are undoubtedly intelligent, you are articulate and you have the headstrong nature that most of us had in our youth.  However, your posts lack experience and you try to make up for that with faulty logic.  Its a marvellous time of life where you are right now, but beware, your 30s will be spent cringing at your 20 something self but by the time you hit 40s you will be OK with it.  The reason I point this out is that you post in a very authoritive way and you don't react very well when your approach is challenged.  You will though, with age and a bit of life experience.

This brings me back to the point, you don't see how one person can influence a dressing room in such a detrimental way.  You will, one day you will see it.  Probably in a staff room or similar but you will see just how easily the wrong influence can turn a previously tight nit and competent group of people into virtual strangers.

Make no mistake, Askey has been knifed.  Badly knifed and he has been let down by the club.  Askey is not the sort who will blame or point the finger, he will always take responsibility and thats been his undoing on this occasion.  However, unless something magical happens, the people left in charge will be the ones who have engineered this and these sort of people do not take responsibility, are not professionals and have already shown how willing they are to throw folk under a bus.  This will not end well, the second it starts getting a bit tough that dressing room will disintegrate and it will be toxic.

John Askey was a long term project in much the way John Rudge was.  Thats gone now and we will rue the day we let it happen.

Patronising much?

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Just now, Nofinikea said:

Nope.

Which bit did I get wrong? Genuinely trying to understand.

You, quite confidently, stated Askey had been knifed. Carol then sacked him, and she worked with the 'facts available to her'. So was Askey sacked whilst Carol was unaware that he had been undermined?

It's important to clear up as you're slandering a club employee here, so just want to be completely crystal clear as to what has occurred. 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to derail the match thread folks - feel free to move 'Sinclair knifed Askey without Carol's knowledge - Gareth Keenan Investigates' to another thread whilst I figure out who exactly nofinikea is keen to slander on this fine evening! UTV

Edited by Joe B
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Joe, stop trying to apply logic I have already shown you that your logic is seriously flawed.

Just because a bloke in the business has been shafted and hasn't made a song and a dance about it to the owners does not mean Carol is complicit or anything else.  It also doesn't mean it didn't happen either.

You tell me Joe, a man like Askey who is the epitome of calm and methodical, how did it all implode after a couple of losses...  a few nay sayers the background who had the ear of a few senior players giving it the "see what I mean" routine, thats how.  Askey was too loyal to some of those traitors, that was his downfall and he took responsibility for it.  End of.

 

Ok, mate. 

Traitors, downfall, knifing. It sounds like the Ides of March.

I don't think you're approaching this from the 'logical' standpoint you keep banging on about. It's very emotive language. You've made some fairly serious accusations about an employee and also implied Carol has been so distracted that she's missed it, and allowed it to continue to the extent that a man was dismissed. I'm just asking for an explanation at how this serious undermining was not picked up and dealt with.

Edited by Joe B

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10 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Joe, stop trying to apply logic I have already shown you that your logic is seriously flawed.

Just because a bloke in the business has been shafted and hasn't made a song and a dance about it to the owners does not mean Carol is complicit or anything else.  It also doesn't mean it didn't happen either.

You tell me Joe, a man like Askey who is the epitome of calm and methodical, how did it all implode after a couple of losses...  a few nay sayers the background who had the ear of a few senior players giving it the "see what I mean" routine, thats how.  Askey was too loyal to some of those traitors, that was his downfall and he took responsibility for it.  End of.

 

What are u going on about 

joe just ignore him 

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Solid but unspectacular effort from us today. Ball ran for us a bit. Deserved win, very welcome three points. This back and forth bickering between certain posters is tiresome for the rest of us.

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Solid but unspectacular effort from us today. Ball ran for us a bit. Deserved win, very welcome three points. This back and forth bickering between certain posters is tiresome for the rest of us.

Agreed, what an absolute embarrassing pi**ing contest.
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2 hours ago, werstayinup said:

But have just appointed an experienced manager

The next couple of games will show if he has the abilities to take this role on.  

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