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I wrote the following account yesterday but decided to sleep on it before posting. I feel I must now clarify, given the responses since the release of the official statement. OK, so to first explain how this has come about. I am the co-founder of the Black & Gold Group, but also current sitting Secretary of the Supporters' Club. The SC, B&G and NLV have all been interwoven for many years, simply because we are all Vale fans with the same ultimate aims. We all offer differing viewpoints on things but remain active together to provide a widespread view on situations. B&G have remained active, albeit in the background, for many years, mainly as observers and researchers. With my SC hat on, we have been increasingly frustrated with everything at the club, same as everyone else. We therefore requested a committee meeting a couple of months or so ago with the inclusion of Matt Hancock, who has offered himself up to the SC as the conduit between us and the club. The relationship between SC and club has drifted apart as we feel that the club have not wanted to engage with us, and it seems that they have hijacked events that the SC have traditionally held, on behalf of the fans. We all feel that the club are trying to control everything. This meeting was intense. I'm not slow at coming forward with my views, and neither is Paul Dixon, and Matt got absolute pelters. To his credit, he took it all very well. Never argued, never complained, never flounced off or made excuses. He took it all in. Following that meeting, Mark Porter, Paul Dixon, and I have remained in constant contact with Matt, intensely pointing out the level of unrest amongst the fanbase. He could quite easily cease communications with me because I have hardly been complimentary at times, but I have tried to reflect the level of anger, frustration, disappointment, and downright disengagement from the club. Matt has actively sought to understand all of that. We then held another meeting with Matt to delve a little deeper into the supporter discontent. This then led to Matt setting up a meeting with Carol for him relay the mounting concerns to her, with her full attention. It was then mutually agreed that a meeting should be held between us to face this head on. During this period, other fans have also been voicing their concerns in their own ways to the club, so we therefore asked them to join in a collaborative effort. Matt then gave us a list of dates that Carol would be available, and the meeting was set. At no point were we given a time limit, a limit on numbers of members that could attend, or any actual pre-requisites at all. All that was asked towards the date looming was a list of names of those attending. The meeting was initially going to be between us and just Matt Hancock and Carol. A couple of us then debated the merits of also requesting the attendance of Paddy. We decided against it, but then as the meeting approached, we were told that Carol would like him to attend. We ran it by our groups, and it was agreed that he should attend. So, on Monday evening, we held a meeting between 7pm until just gone 10pm. The burning topic, of course, was David Flitcroft. My view remains that I cannot see his position anything other than untenable. A sentiment held by all of us on our side of the table. Let's not dress that up any other way. The overwhelming evidence of fans in the ground, fans in the pubs, fans on social media, forums such as this and radio phone-ins, is that very few have remaining faith in our Director of Football. You must understand that, had we sat down and screamed that Flitcroft is a w***** and he needs to f*** off, a 3-hour meeting would not have lasted 3 minutes. And we would also be doing a dis-service to the other points that needed addressing. We went into the meeting well researched, with a formal agenda from which to raise our points. After lots and lots of debate around the obvious, we then discussed the other topics; those being the communications coming out of the club, the problems with ticketing, the matchday supporter facilities and overall 'experience' and the potential for better fan engagement with the club going forward. The club seemed surprised at some of the issues raised. They did admit failings in communication, they also saw a different viewpoint on the other topics that they had not considered. Above all else, they appeared genuinely shocked and saddened at what we were telling them, in terms of the overall disconnect between fans and club. Now, we all know that admitting failure, and expressing shock and sadness at things is all well and good, but they need to let their actions do the talking. We hope that they now understand that loud and clear. It's over to them to deliver results. So please let me make it abundantly clear. We recognise that fans are not happy. This season, we have seen fans fighting amongst themselves in the stands. We have seen much anger directed at Flitcroft, at our players for abject performances. We have seen growing complaints against the disparity of ground improvements. We have an utterly unworkable relationship between the Supporters' Club and the club. We have seen an alarming lack of respect shown to us fans by the club, not least by way of Carol's letter, David Flitcroft's Podcast, and the ignorance displayed towards our concerns at the last fans' forum. We are taking those issues to the club because they all need to be fixed. Do not think for one moment that we are easily pacified. But we must be logical. We cannot just rock up with a list of demands. There will have to be compromise and understanding from both sides. The first step in that healing process is to meet and hit the problems head on. Monday's meeting was exactly that. We don't have any answers, or results to report back on, from one solitary, intense meeting. But it is the start of some much needed honest and frank dialogue. How this pans out is yet to be decided. We've been in much worse states. We have battled to remove two rogue owners in the last 13 or so years. These owners are not rogue. But it's fair to say they have misaligned their focus. Please support us in regaining that. And please understand our respect for the Shanahan family, despite all our current differences. We've hopefully now opened doors and we look forward to the club holding much more open dialogue with the wider fanbase.

Happy to prove you wrong Paul. Black & Gold have continued to exist since its inception back in about 2008/9, in the background, to gauge fans' feelings and I suppose judge the performance of the club. We have an excellent source of research to delve deeper into things. Mark Porter is the chair of the SC and, until recently, the meetings were held on the final Thursday of each month. However, we have just changed that to bi-monthly to allow us to have more regular committee meetings to allow us to operate better. Sadly, our website got hacked and damaged so we are struggling for an official means of communications whilst our new one is currently being built. (I'm the SC secretary by the way) Tell you why we represent you? We listen at meetings and we listen to fans in the stands, in the pubs, on social media and on forums such as this. We represent you by collectively discussing what we can do within our powers as supporter groups. That has led to lots of very frank dialogue with the club over the past couple of months, resulting in this meeting to hit it all face on with the people at the top. Yes, this meeting was face to face. No, we have not been pacified and nobody, not a single person, has changed their views on David Flitcroft or the disconnect between fans and club. I'm absolutely astounded at the bizarre criticisms that we've 'had our bellies tickled' and other such nonsense. As a result of our initial meeting, the club now fully understand the deep-rooted issues the fans have. It is the first step in a long road ahead. There will, of course, be further communication back to the fans, no doubt from both sides, but we also have to be pragmatic and sensible. We will do nothing knee-jerk. The fans have had faith in those groups to act for the betterment of the club in the past. We ask for the same again.

I've not really said anything so far but keep seeing the recurrence of people "having their belly tickled" "smoke blown up their arse" "not asking the hard questions that fans want asking". Bede, Dicko, Tony and myself were there as part of B&G. If you think we are the type of people that would have our bellies tickled and not ask the hard questions, then I'm not sure how to change your mind, epecially people like Spunkers who have seen us on multiple protests, meetings, etc... Collectively we have got rid of two lots of disgraceful owners, yet went into the meeting to offer an olive branch to the club to try and resolve current tensions. This is because the Shanahan's, in my opinion, truly have the best wishes of the club at heart and it is not them that is the problem. We want to work with them to try and sort this current discontent and anger out. Of course the main topic was the director of football. But do you think you can really go in and tell Carol to get rid and walk out? The meeting would be over in an instant. The club now realise how deep rooted this is and they have to try and alleviate the tension. How they do that is up to them. We know what we want to happen, but Carol owns the club and we can't hold her by gun point, but we can try and make her realise the massive feeling of discontent. What the club do now is their decision. We have started the conversation. They know how the fans feel, trust us. Now while the club decide the next steps, the only thing we can do is get behind the team wholeheartedly on Saturday, like we have all season and try and retain our League 1 status.

Just need to vent slightly here, apologies. Just to be very clear, I'm not a huge lover of DF. I understand ppl think he talks waffle & is pulling the wool over Carol's eyes. I understand he's not a particularly 'likeable' guy. He was always on a hiding to nothing when a club legend & fans fave came out & blitzed him publicly upon his arrival. That planted the seed. It went very very quiet though when we instantly got promoted, didn't it. This for me is yet another clear statement from the club. Well done for getting together with the main supporters groups. I'm confident that Porter & Dicko et al got their points of view across. Ultimately it's Carol's decision on how to manage poor performance of the football side of things (Flitcroft). If she believes in him, then ultimately we have to respect that view & get on with it. I'm not sure what some supporters genuinely expect sometimes. We're not the Dog & Duck. We're a professional football club playing in the 3rd tier of English football (for now). The club shouldn't have to give minute by minute accounts of the goings on behind the scenes. I personally hold the view that a lot of the anger & abuse towards the club & DF is unwarranted. DF answered questions recently including covering the January transfer window. That's a fact. If some fans weren't happy with what they heard then that's unfortunate, but ultimately the bloke explained some of the reasons why we didn't do what we should have done. There's been forums (I'm sure there will be another in the summer). Carol has done podcasts, statements. No matter how many times the club engage, or how they engage, it doesn't change anything, because ultimately ppl aren't getting what they're craving, which is DFs head on a plate. You've got to trust in Carol to make these key decisions. She certainly doesn't help herself at times from a PR perspective but I 100% believe she wants what's best for this football club. If she feels that's to give DF more time to rectify some of his very poor performance, then so be it. If we're honest, he's probably earned more time based on his performance over his full time at the club. He's made massive mistakes, but he's also done some good along the way. & even if Carol did get rid, she's just going to bring another DOF in who some people won't like & will want rid of at the first sign of poor performance. We're having a terrible season. Lots of mistakes have been made. Ppl at the club will be dissapointed with their own performances, DF included. As a fan base we really do need to come together & do everything we can to give us a sniff at staying up. It might not be enough, but we're Vale fans aren't we. We have to try. I genuinely believe in my heart of hearts that good times are ahead of us. Even if we go down this season, I do believe important lessons will have been learned & we will come back stronger. We're all Vale aren't we... let's back them & show some faith. I'm really hopeful of better times ahead. UTV.

I watched 20 minutes of training today and can honestly say it’s the loudest and most intensive session I’ve seen this season. Admittedly I’ve only watched a handful of sessions this season, 20 minutes is a small sample size but it looked really well organised. Gives me hope for Saturday the lads are finally going to be up for it. The manager certainly is! 1st win of the year incoming 🤞

Thank you, great post. Explains much more and in an honest and direct format than the official communique did.

So to sum up: 1. I wasn't personally invited to this meeting so I'm not happy; 2. The statement doesn't include a second by second account of what went on so I'm not happy; 3. The statement doesn't say exactly what I want to happen so I'm not happy; 4. On account of the foregoing, I'll presume every negative thing I can from what I don't know went on. Some of you don't half love banging your gums incessantly. Until DF goes, it's clear that some are never going to accept anything coming out of the club. Then it'll move on to blaming DF for everything in the years after that as being a legacy from his involvement, before the blame for a failed signing moves to Carol/new manager. I really don't know why Carol bothers.

Mum walk in on you w**king this morning youth? 😉 Your local virtue signalling, woke Londoner here. There were a few people, not me, who have put so much thought, time and effort into this meeting - some travelling 6 hours, and represented yours/our frustrations. Instead of contributing little, I ask you to trust them - they have the fans/club at heart.

Two things I took from that. Owner, CEO in attendance. Our loveable DOF wasn’t. Statement briefly mentions the DOF being discussed but there was a difference in opinion in which they respect. Roughly translated he was either protected or couldn’t face the various groups in attendance and he’s still teachers pet. Pathetic if the club don’t act when all around them can see the problem. Shes obviously still very much in denial. The circus continues.

Precisely this. Some fans will never be happy. I will just watch how it goes. Ultimately, if I’m happy to justify the cost of continuing to attend, I will. If not, I won’t. I don’t consider it necessary to demand information from the club to inform my decision. The world will still turn, either way.

Spotted at the darts in Brighton😂

No mate, you should have gone in there, punched Paddy, flipped a table, and then demanded Flitcroft is sacked or you’re holding Carol hostage. Seriously - well done for organising and then taking this absolutely unwarranted heat from lads who need to touch grass. It genuinely makes you question why on Earth you bother. Hopefully the first step in a long road to something more positive.

The problem was that some fans were not just expressing opinions but were actually making assumptions about various aspects of the meeting then reporting as if they were true.

Many thanks Bede for your detailed post. I, initially, like many others were left a little bewildered at the original statement put out by the Club. I now know much more and am satisfied that at long last a commencement of reasonable debate and discussion has been set up. If only your eloquent post had been seen BEFORE the Club' s rather scant statement, I suggest most of the concern and disbelief could have been avoided. I applaud yours and the others involved attempts to voice Valiant fans opinions. Time will tell but hopefully now you have gone to print the majority of us can at least accept the door is open to eventually appease our concerns.

Hi all don’t post very often and don’t really like engaging but thought it was about time. Carol is a very shrewd business woman, I have a number of instances from her dealings at buying the club when I have been impressed with her short term and long term strategies. In short you don’t mess around with her or she will take advantage. She will be hurting as much as us with our position as all this reflects on her. Loads of mistakes have been made by the club. But the mistakes we are talking about is the failed attempt to get a striker, the wrong manager appointment. We are not talking about Boardroom power struggles and administration or rogue owners pocketing income. We have a club that is well run but got decisions wrong which happens at every football club. I’m not a happy clapper and I’m not saying I’m happy with the club but, I am VTID and as someone who was dragged around to meetings about the club by his parents to ensure it’s existence I feel we need some reflection. From me a thank you to those who requested and attended the meeting. The club need to reflect on the discussions and make changes. Now we all need to hope, pray and demand a win on Saturday

I just think the reaction of the normal blokes on here a bit ridiculous Ive not really met any of the groups who were there but I reckon I can trust them enough that there doing the right thing We are going down and once we do I’m going protest and hopefully it’s enough to remove DF I also think as good as this site is there is some rate cockheads posting daily See u Saturday

My issue with the good times are ahead of us quotes we see ,is that was what Mansfield 0 Port Vale 3 was all about. Not 2 years of regression. Let's be under no illusion League 2 is a bugger to get out of. It's horrible. You can't wave a magic wand. Ask Bradford.

I think you should give them more than two days before you judge.

Many sensible fans thank you for your efforts mate. Great stuff.

It’s good to talk and I think an excellent initiative. Thank you for the update. A good start although it cannot be expected that everything will be sorted at once. We do have excellent owners now and I am sure they think they are trying to do the right things. Sometimes it doesn’t work as expected or hoped for. Hoping this is the start of a more open relationship with the supporters and a positive way forward.

Once again, the club invited no one. Well-meaning fans chose who was going to attend. I know that the people there would have asked extremely tough questions about DF and sometimes things don’t change overnight. This thread is getting silly. Completely spurious, untrue allegations - just making stuff up.

Firstly “youth”. I’m a 43 year old man who has lived away from home for 25 years. Secondly, I don’t doubt whatsoever that any Vale fan has the club at heart. We all do. Thirdly. You say I’ve contributed little? Is that right? Where have I contributed little? How much do you know of what i have contributed to this club? Im glad the meeting happened. Brilliant. So instead of having a go at me, tell your friends at NLV and the supporters club and the Black and Gold (which really is pathetic now and shouldn’t be involved) to make statements on their behalf, through their own organisations, to let the average fan know what is going on and how those talks went. The statement from the club went on about communication and yet no supporter knew this was happening??!! So don’t fans have a right to be pissed off and be in the dark?

All the groups you mentioned all represent different groups of Vale supporters. Inviting all the groups gave the chance for a broader spectrum of Vale fans to be represented and to be heard. I don't see anything wrong in that. It is not possible to get every supporter involved as I am sure you realise, but those groups will have a good idea of their members concerns from feedback and from all the views on social media.

Would you seriously have expected to have achieved that after one meeting? Would you seriously have expected the D o F to be sacked by the club after one meeting with fans?

So I take it you where present at the meeting? 😊 So perhaps you can explain why this vague statement was agreed upon, with absolutely zero genuine content of the meeting being revealed? I think that is what 99% of people are angry about. That we are still told absolute nothing, and that all fans that seem to have been there, all of a sudden talk like politicians and wont tell a single detail about answers given at the meeting. Did you sign an NDA? In my humble opinion, this is just creating an even bigger divide, instead of pulling fans together. 😞

With no official comment from any of the said bodies in that meeting, I would say it was a meeting to appease those who head those factions. And by the way not one of them matter. Not to the fans of the club. I mean, the black and good group? Get a <ovf censored> grip. That ship sailed long ago and shouldn’t exist still! The supporters club. Who is the chairman these days? When are the meetings? Tell me why you represent ME as a supporter? You are absolutely pointless! Who was the third? The NLV? Virtue signaling lot. All three factions. You do realise she is appeasing you all. You do realise this bides her more time for David. And I really really hope you all realise that after that statement you’ll make statements in your own little bubbles and social media sites. So show us YOUR conclusions after this meeting. I won’t hold my breath.

The simple fact of the matter is a group of supporters took time out and made the effort to arrange a meeting with the club to air their issues. There wasn’t actually an obligation at all for them to make a statement. They didn’t have to, and the purpose of the statement I suspect isn’t necessarily the content, but more so to show that dialogue has been opened, to show there is an effort there to work together because let’s face it, what was or wasn’t said isn’t the most important thing right now. What is important is to encourage a bit of unity and an atmosphere on Saturday where we can hopefully push the players on the pitch to a much needed 3 points. That’s the only important thing right now in me eyes. You don’t need to know what was said at the meeting, you’re not entitled to know what was said at the meeting. If you do want to know what Carole etc views are of the current situation, you can always request a meeting yourself.

A high proportion of the beef from posters on this thread doesn’t seem to be about the statement itself, but because they weren’t invited to the meeting, which is a bit entitled in my opinion. It smacks of jealousy to me, to be frank. Am I annoyed I wasn’t told about the meeting? No. Am I annoyed I wasn’t invited? No. How can I be. I’m a Vale fan. I buy my season ticket and spend my money at the club. But, I don’t give up my free time for the club, I haven’t attempted to arrange a meeting myself. The people who did attend, obviously did and do all this, so there shouldn’t be any resentment because you weren’t invited. It’s ludicrous. With regards to the statement itself, of course it’s written how it is. The minutiae if the meeting, the individual personal comments likely made, obviously cannot be included. It’s a public statement from a professional business and it cannot include criticism about members of staff etc it could leave the club, an employer, open to all sorts issues (constructive dismissal case for example?). All I’m taking from it is dialogue has been opened between the club and its customers. Whatever you think of the Shanahans, DF etc, that’s got to be a positive surely. The ability to listen and communicate was not something V2001 / Smurhwaite were ever open too. And no, I’m not a happy clapper, and no, I’m not happy with where we are in the league, the recruitment over the last 18 months etc but my recourse is through my wallet, that’s it. I have no other entitlement to anything else and nor should I.

And some fans dont half love belittling other fans opinions because they want some answers to why things have gone so terribly wrong. Who are you to say how fans should act. Most of us are happy after bede has explained in more detail. As the statement from the club and the supporters group was pretty vague

I would suggest that those doing that are not the folk who had the meeting.

I can't understand why folk are saying the statement gave a total lack of information. It says that a considerable amount of the discussion was about the Director of Football. It says there was an acknowledgment from the club that communication with fans had been poor. It says there was a robust debate about accountability for football performance. What else did you want to know??

No, but I'm baffled. Others seem angry though. Having read most of this thread and loads of posts on X, do you think this statement with total lack of information, and the attendees answering like politicians, speaking without saying anything, is more gathering or dividing the fans? As I said elsewhere: what 99% of the angry are angry about, is the utter and total lack of information. And the way they're answering, you'd think they shared nuclear launch codes! If they plan to come out with more information, they should have waited to make a statement until they're actually ready to reveal such information. This statement, is just another piss take to the general fan. And I do think that it's baffling beyond belief, and quite contradictory, that one of the points discussed at the meeting was the lack of communication and information from the club. Just for the attendees to not only agree to such a non-statement, but actually actively engage in not communicating and withholding key information.

Here’s my issue Steve and you know I respect you. I honestly do not believe that the club understands the issues the fans have! That statement mate. Come on. I don’t care about anything other than getting David Flitcroft out of this club. That’s my only issue. And yet they have to make a point in their statement about the DOF and the disagreement in between the said parties that were there!! I am happily proved wrong if she sacks him today but if he’s still here in the summer we are doomed. You know me. I was black and gold. The amount of money and my relationship by the way, suffered for this club. To save my club. I just don’t get the black and gold thing right now. If you were there, and by the way I would have loved to be there, I would have just gone, “David Flitcroft. Sack him” No politics. Just rhyme off every failure on the pitch he has made. Dropped my pint and walk out. It’s really not rocket science Steve but take a few hours, think about Smurthwaite, (I’m not saying this is happening again) but he did similar in the early years. Flitcroft goes. The club resets. Flitcroft stays. The club has cancer. It’s pretty simple mate regardless of any politics and any factions.

Looks like Andy Crosbys arm holding that sign 🤣

I don’t think bad mouthing Mark Porter was funny.

This is basically all that those not privy to these behind the scenes conversations were after. The announcement that a meeting had taken place and a broadbrush statement with little or no meaningful content did little to appease many fans. If this was the background & content of the meeting then why could this not just have been communicated avoiding lots of negative social media posts ? Another instance of poor communication ! Why was the detail about the meeting not communicated in advance allowing those with no affiliation with the 3 representative groups an opportunity to provide them with input which as have been additional to what you already had ? Could this be taken on board for such future meetings please. Thank you for your clarity

I’d agree, but I can’t name many players that do want to be here. They seem to all have downed tools when the clocks went back!

Thank you, THIS is what the statement should have said and what other attendees should have replied.

The main problem with fans it seems is DF's involvement in the squad and recruitment,as i said the other day it seems like Carol is determined to keep him as DOF and if thats the case then come out and say he is still DOF but player recruitment will be solely down to DM and his team.

We have had several "must win " games recently. If we have any chance of avoiding relegation, however slim that chance is, then the revival has to start this Saturday with a win. Anything less and I think the fanbase will know we are doomed.

The latest edition of Derek I'm Gutted!!! (no 115) is now on sale at the Shrewsbury game and all others home and away over the next few weeks. High Lane News and the Bulls Head in Burslem will as usual have a stock. This issue includes the annual Sacking Supplement! A packed 36 pages, still only £1!

I begin to wonder if they actually care about the fan base? (what a crazy thing to say - given the unity when the Shanahans bought the club) To me the club is on a downward spiral heading into oblivion. Bad decision after bad decision, financial ruin through complacency and listening to one person. To me things appear as 'bad as ever' - it feels strange having to say that. My support is in serious doubt after this. I'll always love the Vale but won't finance incompetence and ignorance.

What is it that can’t be said now? What is ir we’re waiting for? How can telling people the general answers be ‘knee jerk’? People just want to know what the h… was said! And I personally don’t understand, why you agreed to this vague statement, saying absolutely nothing. And then all of you present, comes out defending it with all these politician answers, still saying absolutely nothing. What was said that is so secret? You’d think nuclear launch codes was shared 😵‍💫

A lot of predictions are guesswork as was the post I was responding to which said that our gates will not decrease much even if we get relegated. It’s a fair presumption we will go down rather than total guesswork and even said I am guessing when estimating the current drop in attendances, which I’ve just checked and we are 11% down on last season home attendances and 29% down on away following, so I wasn’t far off. Plus I never gave any reason why attendances have and will continue to drop, I just predicted they would so get your head out of your ass and post something useful rather that might actually agree or disagree.

If we don't win on Saturday I expect the last few home games of the season to be very very uncomfortable for our director of football. And so it should be !

They all had to stand with one hand on the bible and say i trust in the process, the whole process and nothing but the process

Very sceptical of this I'm afraid. Mark Porter - more faces than a town hall clock, goes on Praise and Grumble and slags people at the club off - I bet he won't have said half of that here, more concerned with making himself the centre of attention and getting inside info. I'd have much preferred another open fans forum, or God forbid Flitcroft sat down with the media and answered some frank questions. Instead we've had an in-house podcast, and now Carol grabbing a select group of fans who she can give a slight inside view into the workings of the club in exchange for their loyalty and spreading the good word on her behalf. Sorry, it means little unless Flitcroft comes out and explains what he's actually doing and takes some responsibility, instead of another attempt by Carol to get people to love him.

In my opinion, that's a welcome move. I think the vast majority of fans are still very much behind the owners, it perhaps just needs an open and frank discussion like this just for all to get back on track with things like communication and so on. It's not going to solve the football issues, but a conversation never was, but it hopefully does start to reset the relationship between fans and owners.

Brill mate thats all the information i need. Thanks for clearing everything up and explaining. I think thats all fans wanted . I dont need to know what was said but i feel much more in the loop after reading that.

For me the meeting is welcome, but the statement was poor. I wouldn't mind if it was short and sweet and just let fans know dialogue had started and will aim to continue. I wouldn't even mind if it said, fans have been outstanding recently and that support is very much needed in the coming weeks. But to ask fans to stop getting frustrated as it doesn't lift the players...words to that effect, is just asking for a backlash, and that's exactly what it got. A shame really as a positive was turned into a negative by a lazy statement that wasn't very well thought through.