Players in and out

[TheSage]

I think what Soothsayer means is that we've signed far too many unproven, inexperienced players at the expense of proven league quality.

But that's the result of starting from ground zero and having a poor budget. Had we decided to splash a bit of the Hugill cash and try and speculate a wee bit to accumulate (and get the fans back on side) then we might have been able to sign better players.

As it is, we've necessarily had to cut our cloth and gamble on 7-8 lads who may or may not make it.

 

Vassell, Oyeleke, Rawlinson, Daniels, Quigley, Kanu, Conlon, Miller & Angus all fall into that category and all have a lot to prove.

 

We have less to worry about with the likes of Brown, Joyce & Dodds because they've got the tee-shirt and are used to this level.

 

I tend to agree with him that it's a pity we couldn't sign more players of proven ability and taken fewer gambles.

[philmpv]

I don't get all of this doom and gloom before a ball has even been kicked in competetive action, and the slating of the signings so far, in the main. ANY player is a gamble. Look at Legge. From what I've seen of him so far, his 'proven league quality' isn't going to count for anything if he keeps playing like he has so far (much like Kay when he started in central defence last season), whereas Rawlinson, with no league experience, has been by far better than Legge. Joyce looks steady enough, but I think both Manny and Conlon have looked much better. By the same token, most on here are highly critical of signing Dodds who, again, has bags of league experience. Yes, we have taken risks on paper, but simply saying that these players have no league experience and taking that as meaning that they will be crap is no reliable barometer of how they will do.

[davehartshill]

Howkins seems very injury prone so I don’t think he’s the answer and I think if we play 4 at the back then Smith/Rawlinson is going to be the preferred partnership. Hopefully Vassell (who has seemingly impressed so far) can make the step up and provide good cover in the middle and at right back.

 

Still think we need a left back and a winger or 2.

[CJ Valiant]

I think what Soothsayer means is that we've signed far too many unproven, inexperienced players at the expense of proven league quality.

But that's the result of starting from ground zero and having a poor budget. Had we decided to splash a bit of the Hugill cash and try and speculate a wee bit to accumulate (and get the fans back on side) then we might have been able to sign better players.

As it is, we've necessarily had to cut our cloth and gamble on 7-8 lads who may or may not make it.

 

Vassell, Oyeleke, Rawlinson, Daniels, Quigley, Kanu, Conlon, Miller & Angus all fall into that category and all have a lot to prove.

 

We have less to worry about with the likes of Brown, Joyce & Dodds because they've got the tee-shirt and are used to this level.

 

I tend to agree with him that it's a pity we couldn't sign more players of proven ability and taken fewer gambles.

 

It can’t be what he means if that’s not what he said!!

 

I agree we’ve signed some players without league experience, but philmpv has it bang on with his last post.

 

A lot of league 1/2 sides have dipped into the non league market this year. Yes they won’t all succeed, but if 2/3 do the we are onto a winner with the established players we already have. A couple more additions and I think we look quite good.

[TheSage]

Aspin has clearly been keen on Howkins for several weeks and from what I saw of him last season he would be an excellent signing as he was, for me, our best defender and more mobile perhaps than what we've got.

I think he is injury prone though and that might be why his development has been held back.

But I'd have him back here in a flash.

 

If we're after a second loan signing it's hard to guess in what position. Left back, winger, forward? I think I'd favour a fast, nippy winger but who knows what Aspin is thinking? He may be wedded to 3.5.2. We'll have to wait and see.

[Sandyford_Lion]

I think what Soothsayer means is that we've signed far too many unproven, inexperienced players at the expense of proven league quality.

But that's the result of starting from ground zero and having a poor budget. Had we decided to splash a bit of the Hugill cash and try and speculate a wee bit to accumulate (and get the fans back on side) then we might have been able to sign better players.

As it is, we've necessarily had to cut our cloth and gamble on 7-8 lads who may or may not make it.

 

Vassell, Oyeleke, Rawlinson, Daniels, Quigley, Kanu, Conlon, Miller & Angus all fall into that category and all have a lot to prove.

 

We have less to worry about with the likes of Brown, Joyce & Dodds because they've got the tee-shirt and are used to this level.

 

I tend to agree with him that it's a pity we couldn't sign more players of proven ability and taken fewer gambles.

 

 

You are right on the numbers

x 29 Current squad

 

x 8 Look like not being required / used this season

 

x 6 Untried at league 2 level

 

Leaves x 15 which includes Pugh , Tongue , Kay ,

and also includes - Gibbons , Smith ,

All of which would need to improve over last season

 

Bulk of the money spent improving the ' spine ' of the team

Brown

Legge

Joyce

Millar

I believe they have cost a fair bit and if they prove themselves we will

be safe from the drop

Pope , Worrall , must also be on top form

 

The rest of the squad really looks like a poor mans budget being spent.

Plenty of gambles, some look like failing even before a ball is kicked.

 

Pope and Miller have to score x 30 goals between them to keep us safe.

 

I don't see many goals at all from the rest.

 

Louis Dodds ? Play him wide in a 4 4 2 and we might aswell forget him.

We will play Pope and Miller so its 3 5 2 and attack or 4 4 2 and suffer

3 5 2 the brings the wing backs into play more and again Gibbons is a no

for me, but who else is there ?

 

Massive season and massive gambles forced on Aspin I believe

I certainly don't see it as a big budget.

I do see it as Aspin has spent wisely in the right positions and I just

hope his choice of players is correct

[PV1973]

You are right on the numbers

x 29 Current squad

 

x 8 Look like not being required / used this season

 

x 6 Untried at league 2 level

 

Leaves x 15 which includes Pugh , Tongue , Kay ,

and also includes - Gibbons , Smith ,

All of which would need to improve over last season

 

Bulk of the money spent improving the ' spine ' of the team

Brown

Legge

Joyce

Millar

I believe they have cost a fair bit and if they prove themselves we will

be safe from the drop

Pope , Worrall , must also be on top form

 

The rest of the squad really looks like a poor mans budget being spent.

Plenty of gambles, some look like failing even before a ball is kicked.

 

Pope and Miller have to score x 30 goals between them to keep us safe.

 

I don't see many goals at all from the rest.

 

Louis Dodds ? Play him wide in a 4 4 2 and we might aswell forget him.

We will play Pope and Miller so its 3 5 2 and attack or 4 4 2 and suffer

3 5 2 the brings the wing backs into play more and again Gibbons is a no

for me, but who else is there ?

 

Massive season and massive gambles forced on Aspin I believe

I certainly don't see it as a big budget.

I do see it as Aspin has spent wisely in the right positions and I just

hope his choice of players is correct

Said so much in another thread. Looking at the squad we have and apart from Worrall we don't really have a natural winger (I realise thats what Monty is supposed to be), but 3-4-3 or whatever we play with wing backs puts big pressure on the wing backs to be creative.

 

At times last season I thought we saw some joy from Denton and Gibbons as wingbacks, but based on what they've done in pre-season we've had Gibbons and Hannant pushing high on to the opposition full backs when we have the ball, that for me kills them because they're either expected to get a ball over the top or do something when it comes in to feet. I don't think thats there game. In Gibbons case hes still learning as a right back, hes going to be up and down in consistency, let alone giving him the pressure of becoming virtually a winger as well. That to me says a lot about the deficiencies in the squad and the performances of our more exeperienced players when we are heaping expectation on to an inexperienced player like him to be a creative force in the side.

 

I think the fullbacks we have (Montano and Gibbons) are better coming on to the ball from a deeper position and overlapping.

 

But if we play with wingbacks how do we fit Pope, Miller, Dodds, Montano, Hanant and Worrall in to the side? In one of the pre-season game we saw Worrall go right wing back. I think maybe they've considered him for that role, but he isn't as good on the defensive side of the game. Aspin clearly likes Hannant and Monty, but to put Hannant left wing back with Monty in a back 3 is a gamble.

[Mattholl]

Said so much in another thread. Looking at the squad we have and apart from Worrall we don't really have a natural winger (I realise thats what Monty is supposed to be), but 3-4-3 or whatever we play with wing backs puts big pressure on the wing backs to be creative.

 

At times last season I thought we saw some joy from Denton and Gibbons as wingbacks, but based on what they've done in pre-season we've had Gibbons and Hannant pushing high on to the opposition full backs when we have the ball, that for me kills them because they're either expected to get a ball over the top or do something when it comes in to feet. I don't think thats there game. In Gibbons case hes still learning as a right back, hes going to be up and down in consistency, let alone giving him the pressure of becoming virtually a winger as well. That to me says a lot about the deficiencies in the squad and the performances of our more exeperienced players when we are heaping expectation on to an inexperienced player like him to be a creative force in the side.

 

I think the fullbacks we have (Montano and Gibbons) are better coming on to the ball from a deeper position and overlapping.

 

But if we play with wingbacks how do we fit Pope, Miller, Dodds, Montano, Hanant and Worrall in to the side? In one of the pre-season game we saw Worrall go right wing back. I think maybe they've considered him for that role, but he isn't as good on the defensive side of the game. Aspin clearly likes Hannant and Monty, but to put Hannant left wing back with Monty in a back 3 is a gamble.

 

I would suggest looking at them narrowing the pitch slightly Aspo isnt looking at using wingers this year. In which case he likely to play with the back 5, 3 CBs Smith, Rawlinson and Legge and 2 wing backs Monty and Gibbons. Id say the midfield 3 will be 1 holding and 2 playing forward of that meaning Hannant/ Conlon, Worrall/Oye (depending on who we are playing) and Joyce holding are likely to start with Dodds and Kay back up on the bench. Miller playing off Pope up front.

 

I personally think the issues defensively have been be caused by the number of games played meaning the unit has been changed at the back so much theres been no consistency in personnel . Very strange preseason with a lot of games shoe horned into the schedule and a trip to ireland.

 

Brown

Rawlinson Legge Smith

Gibbons Monty

Joyce

Worrall Hannant

 

Miller

Pope

[PV1973]

I would suggest looking at them narrowing the pitch slightly Aspo isnt looking at using wingers this year. In which case he likely to play with the back 5, 3 CBs Smith, Rawlinson and Legge and 2 wing backs Monty and Gibbons. Id say the midfield 3 will be 1 holding and 2 playing forward of that meaning Hannant/ Conlon, Worrall/Oye (depending on who we are playing) and Joyce holding are likely to start with Dodds and Kay back up on the bench. Miller playing off Pope up front.

 

I personally think the issues defensively have been be caused by the number of games played meaning the unit has been changed at the back so much theres been no consistency in personnel . Very strange preseason with a lot of games shoe horned into the schedule and a trip to ireland.

Yep I think by narrowing the pitch they're looking to contain the opposition more than trying to use the width as one of our strengths. The pitch looks miles away from the Railway stand now.

 

The 2 midfielders have been more holding. At Halifax they started with Worrall in front of the holding midfielders just behind the front 2 with pretty much a free role, second half they changed it to a 3 up front with Worrall on the right of the 3.

 

One thing that I think Aspin was too hasty to do was change the defense often last season. One bad result and the knee jerk was a defender dropped. Thats the area of the pitch that needs consistency and understanding.

[Mattholl]

Yep I think by narrowing the pitch they're looking to contain the opposition more than trying to use the width as one of our strengths.

 

The 2 midfielders have been more holding. At Halifax they started with Worrall in front of the holding midfielders just behind the front 2 with pretty much a free role, second half they changed it to a 3 up front with Worrall on the right of the 3.

 

One thing that I think Aspin was too hasty to do was change the defense often last season. One bad result and the knee jerk was a defender dropped. Thats the area of the pitch that needs consistency and understanding.

 

100% agree on the knee jerk defense changes, in a lot of cases i felt sorry for the defenders who literally were left unguarded with a lot of runners at them and behind them due to a massively static midfield. Accrington it was disappointing they tapped in two crosses from close range unopposed but the issue was the balls should never have come in and they were overrun massively marking was neigh on impossible

[Santa]

Away at Accrington, yes the balls came in too easily but it was the way their forwards pinned our defenders. As I remember it at least a couple of goals were identical in the way they were able to hold the ball up more or less inside our six yard box with their back to goal, and lay it back for a runner to finish.

[PV1973]

Some good points about our lack of wingers and Aspins 3 at the back formation. Despite him playing in a side with great wingers, he doesn't seem to embrace that as a manager.

 

Away at Accrington, yes the balls came in too easily but it was the way their forwards pinned our defenders. As I remember it at least a couple of goals were identical in the way they were able to hold the ball up more or less inside our six yard box with their back to goal, and lay it back for a runner to finish.

If ever we needed a change in formation to combat an opposition then it was in that game.

[fuzzyvalefan]

I would suggest looking at them narrowing the pitch slightly Aspo isnt looking at using wingers this year. In which case he likely to play with the back 5, 3 CBs Smith, Rawlinson and Legge and 2 wing backs Monty and Gibbons. Id say the midfield 3 will be 1 holding and 2 playing forward of that meaning Hannant/ Conlon, Worrall/Oye (depending on who we are playing) and Joyce holding are likely to start with Dodds and Kay back up on the bench. Miller playing off Pope up front.

 

I personally think the issues defensively have been be caused by the number of games played meaning the unit has been changed at the back so much theres been no consistency in personnel . Very strange preseason with a lot of games shoe horned into the schedule and a trip to ireland.

 

Brown

Rawlinson Legge Smith

Gibbons Monty

Joyce

Worrall Hannant

 

Miller

Pope

 

That’s pretty much how I would line up. Maybe Oyeleke in midfield but I don’t think that’s a million miles off what we will see on Saturday.

[TheSage]

It will indeed be interesting to see what does happen - and we do now have the players to change it around during the game if it isn't working well.

 

Personally I feel that Worrall is better on the right and not centrally. I also prefer Hannant on the wings as I don't think he's particularly physical or tall enough in the centre. But I tend to agree if we go that way then it's 2 out of those 4 players competing for the central spots. Dodds would get a place for me because he's better suited there than the other two but I don't know how fit Oyeleke or Miller are, and I'd expect both not to play much more than 60 minutes if they do start.

 

I think, despite a poor pre-season, he will start Legge [one of his key signings] and hope that those alongside him can help him out. I don't know how Cambridge play but lads like Ibhere & Corr are tall, physical players.

 

The worry is - as 1973 has said before - can our full backs get forward enough and get enough quality balls into the box because Pope & Miller will thrive on service but starve without the ball. If we can't get down the side of their defence we'll struggle through the middle, though I still think if Dodds plays the number ten role he is capable of producing a bit of skill to create something. But that line-up lacks a speed merchant for me in the final third.

 

But we are in close agreement. That is the kind of starting XI we'll no doubt see, with Quigley, Vassell, Pugh, etc. on the bench with the two above who don't make it. A better stronger bench than last year.

[Mattholl]

It will indeed be interesting to see what does happen - and we do now have the players to change it around during the game if it isn't working well.

 

Personally I feel that Worrall is better on the right and not centrally. I also prefer Hannant on the wings as I don't think he's particularly physical or tall enough in the centre. But I tend to agree if we go that way then it's 2 out of those 4 players competing for the central spots. Dodds would get a place for me because he's better suited there than the other two but I don't know how fit Oyeleke or Miller are, and I'd expect both not to play much more than 60 minutes if they do start.

 

I think, despite a poor pre-season, he will start Legge [one of his key signings] and hope that those alongside him can help him out. I don't know how Cambridge play but lads like Ibhere & Corr are tall, physical players.

 

The worry is - as 1973 has said before - can our full backs get forward enough and get enough quality balls into the box because Pope & Miller will thrive on service but starve without the ball. If we can't get down the side of their defence we'll struggle through the middle, though I still think if Dodds plays the number ten role he is capable of producing a bit of skill to create something. But that line-up lacks a speed merchant for me in the final third.

 

But we are in close agreement. That is the kind of starting XI we'll no doubt see, with Quigley, Vassell, Pugh, etc. on the bench with the two above who don't make it. A better stronger bench than last year.

 

What id do with Legge is exactly what Adams Purse and just make sure he heads and kicks everything and the other CB tucks around and covers behind. With a 3 it should be easier as theres two that can drop off and let him go and win the ball. I think thats what he was thinking with Monty to tuck round and cover against pace, but seems a bit drastic.