Brexit again...

[Aussie Rules]

18 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Some may but it would need a qualified majority vote at least. Same with an army, it makes sense to share resources as in NATO etc, but control will always remain with nations as with NATO.

I'm of the opinion Fosse, if history is revisited, that a Super State would ideally suit Germany with France tagging along and supported by the USA. Germany has been unsuccessful several times using military methods, now it is using a loose kind of Unionism to control Europe.

China currently uses the old British Empire model of economic hegemony to secure control of other countries resources - including Australia.

Germany does not have China's economic clout to control European resources; the USA is in a trade war with China; Russia is still keen to annex its border countries; and France and Germany will fall out of love with each other.

So for me it makes absolute sense that the UK should remain in the EU.   

 

[ginge]

19 hours ago, For Us All said:

They may have the biggest and best market but it doesn't seem to be filtering down to the youth of today?

Youth unemployment as of May,2019.

Greece   40.4%

Spain      31.7%

Italy         30.5%

Croatia    20.6%

France     20.2%

Portugal   18.7%

Sweden    18.3%

Finland      16.7%

Cyprus       16.4%

Romania    15.4%

Belgium      15.1%

UK                10.4%

 

We are still in the EU .... 

Wonder if zero hour contracts have something to do with that. 

[For Us All]

13 minutes ago, ginge said:

We are still in the EU .... 

Wonder if zero hour contracts have something to do with that. 

 

13 minutes ago, ginge said:

We are still in the EU .... 

Wonder if zero hour contracts have something to do with that. 

So are another 27 countries,perhaps they should adopt our system?

 

[ginge]

Just now, For Us All said:

 

So are another 27 countries,perhaps they should adopt our system?

 

Zero hour contracts for everyone!

[Fosse69]

39 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

I'm of the opinion Fosse, if history is revisited, that a Super State would ideally suit Germany with France tagging along and supported by the USA. Germany has been unsuccessful several times using military methods, now it is using a loose kind of Unionism to control Europe.

China currently uses the old British Empire model of economic hegemony to secure control of other countries resources - including Australia.

Germany does not have China's economic clout to control European resources; the USA is in a trade war with China; Russia is still keen to annex its border countries; and France and Germany will fall out of love with each other.

So for me it makes absolute sense that the UK should remain in the EU.   

 

Absolutely, Europe has been plagued by wars, France, Germany, and ourselves spring to mind, not always against Germany. They fought with us at Waterloo against Napoleon. My main reason for being in the EU is peace, the big three have been the driving force in the EU mainly to their own advantages, splitting it up is only to the advantage of the US and Trump economics. 

[Fosse69]

18 minutes ago, For Us All said:

 

So are another 27 countries,perhaps they should adopt our system?

 

Their populations are not so gullible.

[Bycarsbill]

21 hours ago, geosname said:

The EU wants to be more than a union...... it wants to be a super state (country).... own army etc

I'm not an advocate for the EU, I'm just making the point that in any 'club' it is natural to want all members singing from the same tune book!

[Fosse69]

20 hours ago, For Us All said:

They may have the biggest and best market but it doesn't seem to be filtering down to the youth of today?

Youth unemployment as of May,2019.

Greece   40.4%

Spain      31.7%

Italy         30.5%

Croatia    20.6%

France     20.2%

Portugal   18.7%

Sweden    18.3%

Finland      16.7%

Cyprus       16.4%

Romania    15.4%

Belgium      15.1%

UK                10.4%

 

What sort of comparison is that? Do they all have the same school leaving age? What do they classify as unemployed i.e. max number of hours that can be worked? Minimum number of hours to be classified as employed. How many bogus training schemes to keep the numbers down?

[tommytunstall]

2 hours ago, Davebrad said:

we could, but that could cause a voter reaction, ie Dominic Greive amongst others facing a deselection battle, and if going for another vote would people bother to go vote thinking whats the use, nothing was done before... also those who did not bother last time thinking the leavers could not win would be out in force this time, to get a remain result, then if it was a remain win, the leavers would campaign to get another vote etc etc etc. Much better to accept the original result as the result of the referendum question. This has already split the country and union possibly  beyond repair, why on earth  give it another go in a few years time?

Dave as a Remainer I don't disagree with your comments. The biggest problem is how we leave there was no mention of this on the ballot paper. I think we should leave with a deal, it's a massive difference to crash out without a deal, and unfortunately Johnsons  Government are hell bent on doing just that.

[geosname]

47 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

I'm not an advocate for the EU, I'm just making the point that in any 'club' it is natural to want all members singing from the same tune book!

There is a difference between wanting and coercing... especially if the club you joined has made you financially and socially dependant on being a member over time by introducing rules of membership that devalues the individual member into subservience.... a form of financial tyranny I suppose..... would any court uphold a contract that has no exit?...... is it a "club" if the cost of giving up your membership is financial ruin?.... I would suggest that was leaning more towards a cult than a club.

But then I'm with groucho when he said "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member" or similar. 

[geosname]

8 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Dave as a Remainer I don't disagree with your comments. The biggest problem is how we leave there was no mention of this on the ballot paper. I think we should leave with a deal, it's a massive difference to crash out without a deal, and unfortunately Johnsons  Government are hell bent on doing just that.

To be honest mate I doubt they are, for all their rhetoric, a deal is the best and probably only way to go for Boris..... if the EU will sit down and talk about it...... if they don't ha has his scapegoat...... which may tarnish the EU a little to.

[Paul6754]

5 hours ago, For Us All said:

It may be a human right but it's not legally binding and allows countries to remain in charge of their own immigration policy.

 Hungary, Austria, Italy, Poland, Slovakia, Chile,Australia and the USA all refused to adopt the deal.

The UK has signed up that's all you need to know, if there wasn't any clout in it why would those countries not sign up.

We have to wait and see how the global pact on migration pans out but the point is still valid that there are supranational organizations that can take precedent over UK law even when the UK is not part of the EU.

FUA, I take it you agree about Sovereignty being a weak argument viz Brexit from your lack of comment.

[geosname]

8 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

The UK has signed up that's all you need to know

That is one hell of a scary statement. 

Has there ever been an agreement that denies the right of exit?

[Fosse69]

3 hours ago, Davebrad said:

we could, but that could cause a voter reaction, ie Dominic Greive amongst others facing a deselection battle, and if going for another vote would people bother to go vote thinking whats the use, nothing was done before... also those who did not bother last time thinking the leavers could not win would be out in force this time, to get a remain result, then if it was a remain win, the leavers would campaign to get another vote etc etc etc. Much better to accept the original result as the result of the referendum question. This has already split the country and union possibly  beyond repair, why on earth  give it another go in a few years time?

If circumstances change, time for a change of mind? If things don't work, surely the time to do something differently?

[Davebrad]

57 minutes ago, geosname said:

To be honest mate I doubt they are, for all their rhetoric, a deal is the best and probably only way to go for Boris..... if the EU will sit down and talk about it...... if they don't ha has his scapegoat...... which may tarnish the EU a little to.

I again agree, we need a deal, but what with the eu not being in the mood to talk, and our negotiators not being more forthcoming on our proposals, it seems overs the years and months the eu have more or less said what they need, and don't seem to be able to budge. Now we have I think made any concessions we can and are stuck over the Irish backstop, they must see that this is the main stumbling block for us, and yet wont budge...