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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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12 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You don't see anything through your Union Jack glasses. And you can't hear owt, perhaps you need to switch Land of Hope and Glory down. Suppose Carneys comments today was more Project Fear in your eyes.

Very good but you missed blue passports.

But yeah, he is a leading project fear merchant and I don't really trust anything he says.

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21 hours ago, TheSage said:

More illogical nonsense from you RB.

We have evidence that our economy has boomed in the last 50 years inside the EU, with record GDP growth and inward investment. Fact. 99/100 economists and academics will tell you the same.

You, instead, are claiming, that we ought to ignore the evidence, ignore history and what we know about the economic benefits of being in the EU and take a complete leap in the dark in the hope that, fingers crossed, eyes closed, it might turn out great. Putting all that economic stability and success at risk on the toss of a coin? Well I'm sorry but that's infantile and stupid.

No evidence? No reason? You're being silly again.

We all base our lives on facts, what has happened in the past, what is happening now. We look at the evidence and we listen to the experts. Then we weigh up the probabilities and make a sensible decision.

If your doctor tells you that smoking 100 fags a day will kill you, do you ignore him? 

Your argument doesn't hold up. Go back to the drawing board and try something else.

Where have I ever said the EU has been bad historically?

What about all of the evidence of GDP growth outside of the EU (The dark as you call it). What about the EU themselves predicting that 90% of global growth will be outside of the EU in the next few years?

What about all of economic problems inside of the EU? The bailouts, the unemployment? I know many Europeans working in the UK in relatively menial jobs because they're on significantly higher wages here than they were earning in 'better' jobs in Spain and Greece. I've spoken about it at great legnths with a my friend who is Spanish.

Add in the evidence that the EU wants to become more of a super state not less and these sorts of issues are only going to get worse in my opinion. And if we're lucky enough to avoid the worst of it we will still be forced to pay to bail out country after country.

Yet again you've written a post describing how you have all these facts and evidence but you don't actually post any of it.

Yet again you've completely ignored the facts that don't fit in with your view point. I honestly get the impression from you that your starting point is "EU is good" and therefore all of the "evidence" is forced to fit into that.

That's why you have to make up that I somehow deny the historical positives of the EU.

 

20 hours ago, ginge said:

You are fact free. Whenever we present you with evidence you deny it because it doesn't match your opinion.

Haha ok. I use legitimate sources for mine - The EU, high court website etc. Official sources.

All you lot post is crazy biased media articles with no substance, or dodgy polls of 1,000 people which is extrapolated and applied to 60m.

That's when you actually bother to post any evidence at all.

 

20 hours ago, ginge said:

Another fact free made up post of yours.

The actual truth: mechanical fault.

Ok, you've got me there. I did make that one up.

 

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3 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Haha ok. I use legitimate sources for mine - The EU, high court website etc. Official sources.

All you lot post is crazy biased media articles with no substance, or dodgy polls of 1,000 people which is extrapolated and applied to 60m.

That's when you actually bother to post any evidence at all.

Your posts get more ridiculous each day.

Every argument you have posted has been shown to be false. 

The High Court was not judging whether mop-head was a liar or not but if what went on was tantamount to misconduct in public office. You don't seem to understand that. There is a subtle difference.

Quoting selectively from the EU website is not honest. If you take into account our rebate and grants to public and private companies, we do not send all that money to the EU every week. I've told you before - context is important. Quoting a line here and there out of context is dishonest. You did the same with hate crime statistics and only quoted half the story.

Very many of my quotes have been academic or university based, by economists or researchers. Or from the House of Commons library that demolished your sovereignty argument in one line.

If someone has a stronger argument than you and the balance of facts and probability is on their side it's better to acknowledge the point and back down. Don't continue digging.

 

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4 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I see where the Liberals won last night. Mop head's majority is now down to 1. 

 

Interesting result...... if we assume Labour's vote and lib dems vote was to remain and Tory and brexit votes were to leave.... the result would be to leave even if you consider 2 remain parties didn't field candidates s as not to split the vote.

And Labour took the biggest hit..... interesting stuff.

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1 hour ago, geosname said:

Interesting result...... if we assume Labour's vote and lib dems vote was to remain and Tory and brexit votes were to leave.... the result would be to leave even if you consider 2 remain parties didn't field candidates s as not to split the vote.

And Labour took the biggest hit..... interesting stuff.

Brexit is not the only factor in voting Geo. Maybe the writing is on the wall for both the Tories and Labour.

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6 hours ago, TheSage said:

Your posts get more ridiculous each day.

Every argument you have posted has been shown to be false. 

The High Court was not judging whether mop-head was a liar or not but if what went on was tantamount to misconduct in public office. You don't seem to understand that. There is a subtle difference.

Quoting selectively from the EU website is not honest. If you take into account our rebate and grants to public and private companies, we do not send all that money to the EU every week. I've told you before - context is important. Quoting a line here and there out of context is dishonest. You did the same with hate crime statistics and only quoted half the story.

Very many of my quotes have been academic or university based, by economists or researchers. Or from the House of Commons library that demolished your sovereignty argument in one line.

If someone has a stronger argument than you and the balance of facts and probability is on their side it's better to acknowledge the point and back down. Don't continue digging.

 

You need to look in the mirror Sagey because that post is complete and utter tripe.

 

I've explained multiple times, I've evidenced mulitple times, I've explained multiple more times.

 

I can't do any more to help you out buddy.

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16 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Well using that as a sweeping generalisation of my posts is not true Paul, you and I both know that I evidence the vast majority of my posts, far more than any remainer has on this site.

But no, unfortunately I don't have evidence of something that has not happened yet. But the difference between me and the remainers is that I'm not claiming to have evidence of something that hasn't happened yet.

Regal, Your  2nd paragraph contradicts your first paragraph. You can't post evidence or facts about the post Brexit UK economy because as you say above it hasn't happened yet, all you've posted are predictions or your hopes and beliefs. Your claims the UK economy is going to be fine and dandy post Brexit are foolish when virtually every Financial Institution/Economist predicts the opposite and there are economic indicators which say the same like the value of the pound/$. All these experts can't be wrong.

The only economic facts as a result of Brexit are;

1) The value of the pound vs Dollar has slumped.

2) The Uk has sunk to the bottom of the G7 growth table from being at the top.

3) Investment in the UK car industry has plummeted.

All these negatives will eventually affect the UK economy especially if there is a no-deal.

Add to this that one reason the UK joined the EU in 1973 was the UK economy was failing.

You choose to ignore the above 3 facts and the historical perspective in favor of your pie in the sky beliefs, but I guess it takes all sorts......

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, Your  2nd paragraph contradicts your first paragraph. You can't post evidence or facts about the post Brexit UK economy because as you say above it hasn't happened yet, all you've posted are predictions or your hopes and beliefs. Your claims the UK economy is going to be fine and dandy post Brexit are foolish when virtually every Financial Institution/Economist predicts the opposite and there are economic indicators which say the same like the value of the pound/$. All these experts can't be wrong.

The only economic facts as a result of Brexit are;

1) The value of the pound vs Dollar has slumped.

2) The Uk has sunk to the bottom of the G7 growth table from being at the top.

3) Investment in the UK car industry has plummeted.

All these negatives will eventually affect the UK economy especially if there is a no-deal.

Add to this that one reason the UK joined the EU in 1973 was the UK economy was failing.

You choose to ignore the above 3 facts and the historical perspective in favor of your pie in the sky beliefs, but I guess it takes all sorts......

 

 

 

What about the fact that we can sign our own trade deals outside of the EU? That's a fact.

What about all the other variables we have control over that can influence the economy?

What about the failing economies in the EU?

What about the fact that 90% of economic growth will happen outside of the eu?

 

These are all relevant facts surely?

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1 minute ago, Fosse69 said:

Fact: Large groups get better deals than smaller groups, conversely small groups get worse deals than bigger groups.

Fact: Most of the world carries on outside the UK and EU

Fact..... it's easier to negotiate a deal when you only need to satisfy 1..... to satisfy 27 is a lot more complicated and time consuming..... if you have to consult the 27

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5 minutes ago, geosname said:

Fact..... it's easier to negotiate a deal when you only need to satisfy 1..... to satisfy 27 is a lot more complicated and time consuming..... if you have to consult the 27

Who will get a better deal with the US, the UK or the EU? We are more likely to be the dumping ground and not be able to tax the likes of Google and Amazon.

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20 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Fact: Large groups get better deals than smaller groups, conversely small groups get worse deals than bigger groups.

That simply isn't a fact at all.

In theory, it's an easier negotiating position if you represent a larger group but it's not a fact that it will transpire that way. There are many other variables.

7 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Who will get a better deal with the US, the UK or the EU? We are more likely to be the dumping ground and not be able to tax the likes of Google and Amazon.

Depends which way you look at it.

If the question is who will get a better deal with the US (FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE UK) then I think the UK would get a better deal than the EU.

Remain is all about over simplifying everything into just big numbers. How can the EU secure a trade deal that benefits all of its members at the same time? It is actually very unlikely as there are 28 member states with different needs different skills different markets different deficiencies.

So when we're talking about the EU being super duper at signing trade deals, are we talking about it benefitting the UK or the EU in general as they are not the same thing.

And a trade deal would have to be mutually beneficial, why would we agree to be a dumping ground? It's just not realistic to think that.

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