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6 hours ago, geosname said:

Slight problem..... there are 2 sides to a boarder.... both sides have to agree how the boarder operates..... unless it's a hard boarder in which case each side decides it's own boarder policy.

The EU does not want a hard boarder, the UK  does not want a hard boarder. It's possible any solution offered would be rejected if it cuts off the money stream from the UK to the EU, which is part of the problem, if it cuts off NI from the UK or if it contravenes the GF agreement.

It makes me wonder if the GF agreement would have been an agreement if we were not in the EU when it was agreed.

The onus is therefore on both parties to find a solution if they want to make it workable.

I wonder how quickly an agrèment could be reached if both sides said brexit is suspended and all monies from the UK to the EU will cease until a solution is found...... it won't happen because the UK  could sit back for another 3 years and simply reject any proposals offered.

This is ridiculous now.  The backstop contains details of exactly what must be achieved with regards to the border to come out of the customs union.  Its already pre agreed and Bozzer has said its doable so what's the problem?

Unless of course nobody actually believes borris and it's not doable?

It's not something the EU need to agree on because they already had agreed to the objectives we need to implement.

This is just another twist and lie by no deal merchants to blame the EU for our own problems but they have been doing that via the right wing media for years and years.

 

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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Why doesnt Borris the peoples champion set about demonstrating the technology that he says already exists, which would then mean everyone can see that the backstop isnt an issue?

Could it be because it doesnt exist at all and it's just more bluster?

Also would any of you like to explain what happens to the Irish border in the event if no deal?

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

This is ridiculous now.  The backstop contains details of exactly what must be achieved with regards to the border to come out of the customs union.  Its already pre agreed and Bozzer has said its doable so what's the problem?

Unless of course nobody actually believes borris and it's not doable?

It's not something the EU need to agree on because they already had agreed to the objectives we need to implement.

This is just another twist and lie by no deal merchants to blame the EU for our own problems but they have been doing that via the right wing media for years and years.

 

First paragraph........ the backstop is part of a proposed agreement between 2 parties which hasn't been agreed.. the EU have stated what they want to leave with any sort of deal, the UK does not have to agree to leave.

2nd.... don't know if its doable or not

3rd..... it's what they proposed for a deal to be agreed, it's what they agreed between themselves and was presented to us in the negotiations.... we rejected it 3 times partly because of the backstop.... and the conditions it imposed.... it's not just about the hard boarder but it is the main sticking point.

4th..... the biggest problem the UK has is parliament.... they rejected the deal 3 times..... when offered the opportunity to vote there own proposals through they didnt/couldn't.... some of the left want to leave some want to stay..... some of the right want to leave some want to stay..... the only thing holding the whole bloody mess together is party politics...... all smoke and mirrors in anticipation of an election and how to win it.

All sides.... all parties..... all politicians.

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There is technology already in place re VAT,TAX and CURRENCY.I think this new arrangement will be favourable for all parties except for Corbyn’s Commies,who won’t agree to anything,only for fear of losing face ,not because it makes any sense and of course the Pain in The Arse Parties.

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On 29/09/2019 at 13:44, Andyregs said:

The only party to be crystal clear on their stance for brexit recently has been the Lib Dem’s. 

He problem is people voted for pie in the sky, or with no idea at all, and it’s left politicians on both sides torn between a rock and a hard place.

Interestingly,Swinson's husband is a director of a company called Transparency International,who apparently received £3.5m from the EU last year? 

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6 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Interestingly,Swinson's husband is a director of a company called Transparency International,who apparently received £3.5m from the EU last year? 

It was their stance way before she took over. 

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12 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

What was? The pledge to revoke article 50 only happened after she became leader, didn't it?

I meant being pro eu. Not that pledge specifically. It’s not as though this policy comes as any surprise.

Edited by Andyregs

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28 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

Well that's it, the eu aren't/wont budging, 31st October independence day, bring it on...

After waiting all Summer, is it any surprise that they are not taken in by this half baked proposal. The Irish situation has always been the problem, so why I we not come up with something workable. Most of the UK know what the Governments game is, but obviously you cannot see through it.

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17 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

No it didnt.

Erm, yes it did. Literally why it was voted down so many times and why you will find videos of prominent leavers and even Jeremy Corbyn stating this.

To end the backstop both the EU and UK would have to agree. No EU agreement = no end to the backstop = UK is stuck in the customs union without any ability to get out.

In March 2019 they made a (typical EU) "concession" whereby they said that they promised not to keep the UK stuck but as they are complete liars and not to be trusted this was also voted down.

The only way we would have any hope of leaving the customs union and scrapping the backstop would be if we could prove that the EU was acting in bad faith by keeping us in. Even this would not guarantee we could leave it however.

https://fullfact.org/europe/irish-backstop/

 

17 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

We can leave as soon as we have the solution in place, the onus is on us to provide that solution.  Boris says the technology is available...

So, if your man is telling the truth, there is no problem with the backstop is there?

We can leave without any of this manufactured garbage on October 31st like we voted for.

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17 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

No it didnt.

Found the Corbyn quote for you, I know you hate it when I post evidence but this is how you will learn the truth.

 

The Labour leader added: "What I said was there were concerns about the way in which it could lock you into a customs union from which you could never negotiate any removal."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49757000

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Erm, yes it did. Literally why it was voted down so many times and why you will find videos of prominent leavers and even Jeremy Corbyn stating this.

To end the backstop both the EU and UK would have to agree. No EU agreement = no end to the backstop = UK is stuck in the customs union without any ability to get out.

In March 2019 they made a (typical EU) "concession" whereby they said that they promised not to keep the UK stuck but as they are complete liars and not to be trusted this was also voted down.

The only way we would have any hope of leaving the customs union and scrapping the backstop would be if we could prove that the EU was acting in bad faith by keeping us in. Even this would not guarantee we could leave it however.

https://fullfact.org/europe/irish-backstop/

 

We can leave without any of this manufactured garbage on October 31st like we voted for.

As a supporter of this Government for you to call the EU complete liars, is astonishing even by your standards.

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Corbyn is playing politics.

You are wrong. 

Read the actual documents for yourself.

The objectives were pre agreed, basically if we meet the objectives we leave the union.  Borris says we have the technology available so what's the problem?  The EU say they have investigated every border control system on the planet and the technology isnt available.

Fact is, like it or not, we have a land borders with the EU.  That is going to have to be controlled but to do that we either need the mysterious tech that Boz reckons exists but hasnt demonstrated or we rip up the good friday agreement.

Clearly you are advocating ripping up the good friday agreement which is what a no deal Brexit would do.  Advocating ripping up the good Friday agreement is a really really stupid thing to do.

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Just now, Jacko51 said:

Am I right in thinking that the original backstop in the May deal would only come into effect if no trade deal was negotiated or have I misunderstood??

That is also true.  

There is no real issue with the backstop.  Half the house vote against it on principle of opposition which is stupid.  That is then propped up by the no deal merchants who wont approve anything and seem to think the EU is evil.

I suspect that if May's deal was now resubmitted it might well sneak through.

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