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9 minutes ago, colin said:

Yes 17.4 million voted to leave the EU. But what was promised has not been delivered. We haven't been able to get the best trade deal in history so now what? We are stuck at an impasse with no mandate for no deal and with the withdrawal agreement unable to get through parliament. A GE may not solve anything either. 

we have not got a withdraw bill yet, due to parliamentary fractions pursuing their own agendas. forcing a no deal out of the equation so we have no pressure to bare, and trade deals so far the uk signed 13 "continuity" deals covering 38 countries or territories.

In addition, the government announced on 11 September that it had secured "an agreement in principle" with six African nations - South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, Eswatini (formerly Swaziland) and Mozambique.

The deal is expected to be formally signed off "shortly".

Admitted not earth shattering but ...

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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9 hours ago, colin said:

In the Tory 2017 manifesto they say once that no deal is better than bad deal. But in the government's eyes the deal that they negotiated was a good deal. So by your logic Theresa Mays deal has a mandate.

Majority of voters in the GE and European elections voted for parties who oppose no deal. That's a fact. It's not a lie!

Not sure how you reach that conclusion. The backstop issue which would keep part of the uk in the eu indefinitely only really came about after the 2017 GE and everyone knows it is a bad deal. 

You have seemingly admitted that their manifesto states that no deal is better than a bad deal and now the goalposts are moving again to an attempt to add up all other party votes to try and diminish or write off the actual mandate given to the government.

 

You have to twist logic to be able to conclude that people didn't vote for no deal. 

That is my point.

Also, brexiters want another referendum because we know we have the numbers. Remainers are desperately trying to thwart that. 

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10 hours ago, colin said:

The Leave campaigns broke electoral law. 

But the police investigation was dropped last week wasnt it?

 

9 hours ago, colin said:

Also can't understand why some people think Labour are in the wrong for not being on the Leave side of things. Majority of their voters are remainers as are an even greater share of their members. Brexit will hit poorer Labour areas the hardest and Labour have always been the party for the working class. Anyone who thinks voting for the Brexit party is going to increase their quality of life has been well and truly conned.

In your opinion. Which is not explained and no workings out provided.

In my opinion, not only will they be better off, but also it doesn't actually matter if people will be better or worse off because we voted for it. 

Do we have a choice as to how we are governed? That is the important question and I hope on 1st November I can say YES. 

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25 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Not sure how you reach that conclusion. The backstop issue which would keep part of the uk in the eu indefinitely only really came about after the 2017 GE and everyone knows it is a bad deal. 

You have seemingly admitted that their manifesto states that no deal is better than a bad deal and now the goalposts are moving again to an attempt to add up all other party votes to try and diminish or write off the actual mandate given to the government.

 

You have to twist logic to be able to conclude that people didn't vote for no deal. 

That is my point.

Also, brexiters want another referendum because we know we have the numbers. Remainers are desperately trying to thwart that. 

Because in their manifesto they said they would get a deal. They got one. They thought it was a good one. So by your own logic ( they're in government), Mays deal has a public mandate. 

The backstop is not an issue. It's so far the only solution which has been presented to the border of Ireland.

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18 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Did remainers know what they were voting for?

And if we do end up overturning democracy, will they advocate having a third referendum to decide "how" we remain? 

Chalk this one up as another point in the brexit column shall we? 

Remain is remain with the current relationship. There's no other version of remain.

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24 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

But the police investigation was dropped last week wasnt it?

 

In your opinion. Which is not explained and no workings out provided.

In my opinion, not only will they be better off, but also it doesn't actually matter if people will be better or worse off because we voted for it. 

Do we have a choice as to how we are governed? That is the important question and I hope on 1st November I can say YES. 

Its not my opinion that more Labour voters are remainers. That's a fact.

Plenty of jobs have already been lost in Labour areas. https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/

Tell me how voting the Brexit party will increase anybody's quality of life?

Brexit was a middle class Tory vote. 59% of voters came from ABC1. 

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56 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

But the police investigation was dropped last week wasnt it?

The met police accepted they broke electoral law and Leave.eu receieved a fine but had no further action. Obviously breaking electoral law isn't serious enough. The unelected Boris Johnson also seems to think he is above the law.

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 I don't think much thought is given to us Brits who live on the continent and are in much the same position as Europeans living in the UK. In fact this never comes up. It is like all Brits living in Europe are rich pensioners in Spain so eff them.

Not true. I've lived my entire working life in NL, raised both our kids here. Speak the lingo. Own our house. Then you get called to go to the alien police (last year)? This is not a nice thing for people just going about their business. 

And we never even got a vote on the whole mess.

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3 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Did remainers know what they were voting for?

And if we do end up overturning democracy, will they advocate having a third referendum to decide "how" we remain? 

Chalk this one up as another point in the brexit column shall we? 

I agree, if we have a 2nd referendum it will set a precedent, all you have to do is cause a fuss  and you get another...with a general election you vote for the party you want first past the post wins, if your party lost then you know in at the most 5yrs you will have another chance...

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12 minutes ago, toyahw said:

 I don't think much thought is given to us Brits who live on the continent and are in much the same position as Europeans living in the UK. In fact this never comes up. It is like all Brits living in Europe are rich pensioners in Spain. 

Not true. I've lived my entire working life in NL, raised both our kids here. Speak the lingo. Own our house. Then you get called to go to the alien police (last year)? This is not a nice thing for people just going about their business. 

And we never even got a vote on the whole mess.

but didn't May say that all eu nationals in the uk upto brexit would be able to stay, plus any coming here for 2yrs after we left, so did not the eu reciprocate...

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1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

I agree, if we have a 2nd referendum it will set a precedent, all you have to do is cause a fuss  and you get another...with a general election you vote for the party you want first past the post wins, if your party lost then you know in at the most 5yrs you will have another chance...

Before Cameron`s Tory party changed the rules we could have elections whenever Parliament voted for one, none of this dilly dallying, they never thought that 2/3 works both ways.

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11 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Before Cameron`s Tory party changed the rules we could have elections whenever Parliament voted for one, none of this dilly dallying, they never thought that 2/3 works both ways.

That was the LibDems forced that. Along with vote on proportional rep. Part of the coalition agreement at that time.

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