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If they get that sorted, then fair play to them and then we see whether Brexit was a good idea or not. History will be the judge there.

But right now, this whole Brexit mess is more about political advantage than anything else. People's livelihood's are at stake here and I am certain that I am not the only Brit that is very nervous about what the consequences will be for us living in the EU.

I will say this, right now as far as Brexit is concerned, I feel like a second class citizen.

Edited by VantaaVale
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This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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24 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

It is literally about government though isnt it? 

What else is it about if not that? 

Try the economy for starters.

Most people won't be hugely affected by which party is in power, people will be massively affected if they lose their job due to Brexit.

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1 minute ago, Paul6754 said:

Try the economy for starters.

Most people won't be hugely affected by which party is in power, people will be massively affected if they lose their job due to Brexit.

People will be massively affected if they gain employment or get paid a higher wage due to brexit too. 

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13 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Try the economy for starters.

Most people won't be hugely affected by which party is in power, people will be massively affected if they lose their job due to Brexit.

Paul, that's exactly the problem in a nutshell.

Brexit means different things to different people.

To use this for political gain should be truly condemned by anybody with the national interest at heart. But unfortunately, it now seems to me that parliament has lost sight of this. And with this statement, I am tarring MP's no matter what party they belong to.

The bare facts are that clearly nobody has a clue what is going to happen. This is politicians playing Russian roulette with the United Kingdom, its people and its future. It's dangerous and they'd better get it right. But I have no confidence in the government and particularly this disingenuous Prime Minister to get it anywhere near right.

Edited by VantaaVale
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59 minutes ago, VantaaVale said:

If they get that sorted, then fair play to them and then we see whether Brexit was a good idea or not. History will be the judge there.

But right now, this whole Brexit mess is more about political advantage than anything else. People's livelihood's are at stake here and I am certain that I am not the only Brit that is very nervous about what the consequences will be for us living in the EU.

I will say this, right now as far as Brexit is concerned, I feel like a second class citizen.

I mentioned this a few posts ago the uk government said they would let people who have lived in the uk for 5yrs and their families the same full recognition also any eu citizen who came in within 2yrs after brexit, and we asked if the eu would do the same... they declined. At least the uk government tried to look after all ex-pats...

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23 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I mentioned this a few posts ago the uk government said they would let people who have lived in the uk for 5yrs and their families the same full recognition also any eu citizen who came in within 2yrs after brexit, and we asked if the eu would do the same... they declined. At least the uk government tried to look after all ex-pats...

Maybe. But you just cannot leave things open like that. From the point of view of an ex-pat in that scenario, the UK government is failing in its duties to them if it then presses ahead.

I know there will always be some casualties in any Brexit, but we are talking about possibly millions of people here. All this needs to be carefully weighed, but I keep being drawn back to this being about political gain above all else.

Edited by VantaaVale

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6 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

...3. Parliament voted in favour of the referendum being of such great importance that the people should decide...

And what was Parliament's way of confirming or otherwise such a Referendum? A ballot paper asking if you want IN or OUT!

The mind boggles.

Cameron et al, in my opinion, acted like a modern day Pontius Pilate on his big day in Judea - wavering as to what to do with such a complex dilemma they took the easy way out by washing their collective hands before throwing it to the people.

 

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31 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

And what was Parliament's way of confirming or otherwise such a Referendum? A ballot paper asking if you want IN or OUT!

The mind boggles.

Cameron et al, in my opinion, acted like a modern day Pontius Pilate on his big day in Judea - wavering as to what to do with such a complex dilemma they took the easy way out by washing their collective hands before throwing it to the people.

 

Bettel gets it absolutely right in his press conference. The campaigns were basically based on lies and our politicians were not strong enough to call out those that purported them as getting votes on the basis of lies. There was no proper information given out prior to the referendum for people to make an informed decision. Therefore, it was complete madness to hold the referendum in the first place. Cameron was complacent and had no choice but to fall on his sword.

Now they have a mess to sort out and, frankly, from what I see from today's meeting, Boris Johnson is a fag packet politician who is so far out of his depth that he is and it is a complete embarrassment for the UK. There is no doubt in my mind that Johnson is the worst Prime Minister I have ever seen by quite some distance, and tbh he is up against some pretty stiff competition.

Why is it so difficult for the UK to find politicians that put the people first and foremost and that can be trusted? UK politics is an total embarrassment to the nation.

Edited by VantaaVale

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12 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

People will be massively affected if they gain employment or get paid a higher wage due to brexit too. 

Fantasy Island mate.  Look around you, all of the mass employers are foreign owned and currently the vast majority of them have ceased to invest in UK infastructure whilst we have uncertainty.  Then it will depend on what the terms are...

But yeh, all the small uk firms will pick up the slack and pay everyone more.   The only way this could happen is if we make it beneficial for UK manufacturing to be utilised by increasing import tariffs on finished goods.  However, you here, Mr Johnson and his right wingers have already announced a tariff schedule under the WTO rules that actually reduced import tariffs this double shafting UK manufacturers.

So unless call centres are about to start paying more than min wage then I would genuinely love to hear your reasoning and theory as to how it's going to increase jobs and pay.

Of course you will just say it's all lies and offer nothing at all because you are just an <edit>

Edited by Fosse69
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2 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Fantasy Island mate.  Look around you, all of the mass employers are foreign owned and currently the vast majority of them have ceased to invest in UK infastructure whilst we have uncertainty.  Then it will depend on what the terms are...

But yeh, all the small uk firms will pick up the slack and pay everyone more.   The only way this could happen is if we make it beneficial for UK manufacturing to be utilised by increasing import tariffs on finished goods.  However, you here, Mr Johnson and his right wingers have already announced a tariff schedule under the WTO rules that actually reduced import tariffs this double shafting UK manufacturers.

So unless call centres are about to start paying more than min wage then I would genuinely love to hear your reasoning and theory as to how it's going to increase jobs and pay.

Of course you will just say it's all lies and offer nothing at all because you are just an <edit>

Why do you find it so hard to control yourself on a football forum? That is a few times now you have resorted to abuse. 

Edited by Fosse69
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11 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

And what was Parliament's way of confirming or otherwise such a Referendum? A ballot paper asking if you want IN or OUT!

The mind boggles.

Cameron et al, in my opinion, acted like a modern day Pontius Pilate on his big day in Judea - wavering as to what to do with such a complex dilemma they took the easy way out by washing their collective hands before throwing it to the people.

 

40 odd years of treaties, links etc at political level, peoples lives and relations interwoven, all thrown in turmoil because of Cameron and the media, May failing to consult parliament on what Brexit meant, and as for Johnson. A political class out of touch with the effects of austerity beyond the M25.

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12 hours ago, VantaaVale said:

Maybe. But you just cannot leave things open like that. From the point of view of an ex-pat in that scenario, the UK government is failing in its duties to them if it then presses ahead.

I know there will always be some casualties in any Brexit, but we are talking about possibly millions of people here. All this needs to be carefully weighed, but I keep being drawn back to this being about political gain above all else.

hi,

  I know what your saying, but our offer/commitment seems good but the eu turned it down why?  was it to punish the uk for leaving and hence using the ex-pats situation as a lever to make us change our minds...

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2 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Why do you find it so hard to control yourself on a football forum? That is a few times now you have resorted to abuse. 

Once again you dont provide anything of substance at all.  I am perfectly in control, no problem there.  If you think calling a <edit> is not being in control then you need to stop being such a snowflake.

You constantly post crap on this thread.  You claim to have provided links etc earlier in the thread and like to call everything that isn't far right extreme no deal Brexit a lie.  This is in detrement to the people that have tried to engage in reasonable debate however you are not clever enough to do that.  That is nobody elses fault.  You maintain a position that is simply designed to fuel the fires of remainers for the sole reason of winding them up, ergo, you are a sad <edit>  

I couldn't be further from not being in control, I am quite able to spot and call out a <,edit. >without getting wound up.

Edited by Fosse69
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29 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Once again you dont provide anything of substance at all.  I am perfectly in control, no problem there.  If you think calling a <edit> is not being in control then you need to stop being such a snowflake.

You constantly post crap on this thread.  You claim to have provided links etc earlier in the thread and like to call everything that isn't far right extreme no deal Brexit a lie.  This is in detrement to the people that have tried to engage in reasonable debate however you are not clever enough to do that.  That is nobody elses fault.  You maintain a position that is simply designed to fuel the fires of remainers for the sole reason of winding them up, ergo, you are a sad <edit>.  

I couldn't be further from not being in control, I am quite able to spot and call out a <edit.>.without getting wound up.

I don't really comment on here any more because of the likes of RB and Geo. Shame really but there are much better places to debate stuff like this, with people who listen and are willing to debate, maybe even open to having their minds changed. I'd change bell end though if I were you, before some po-faced, heavy-handed lumphead tries to ban you. 'Blend' works just as well.

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1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I don't really comment on here any more because of the likes of RB and Geo. Shame really but there are much better places to debate stuff like this, with people who listen and are willing to debate, maybe even open to having their minds changed. I'd change bell end though if I were you, before some po-faced, heavy-handed lumphead tries to ban you. 'Blend' works just as well.

If I could do smilies that would get at least 2

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