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Brexit again...


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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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2 hours ago, colin said:

The mandate thing is not a lie. In the last GE and in recent European elections majority of voters voted for parties who oppose no deal. Also there is no mandate in parliament for no deal. And no deal was never on the table in the original referendum. 

Correct me if I'm wrong..... both major parties stood in the GE on a platform of honouring the referendum and the libs stood on remaining.... none of which is no deal.

The big winners in the EU elections were brexit and libs neither of which is no deal.

There is a clear distinction between wanting to remain and not wanting to leave without a deal...... even though the politicians seem confused by it.

Party lines have become a little clearer......

Tories want to leave with or without a deal..... ish.

Libs and smaller groups want to remain.

Labour seem to have a confused stance, difficult to explain and even more difficult to understand..... they want to renegotiate a deal the EU says can't be renegotiated,  then campaign against the deal, whatever it may be, they have so diligently negotiated.

None of the above bridges the chasem that has split the people they represent..... bearing in mind they are supposed to represent all the people in the constituency not just leavers or remainers.

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3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

There are certain people who seem to call everything they disagree with a lie. Folk are perfectly entitled to their own opinions but they cannot make up their own facts. 

The only 2 facts I can see are that more people voted to leave than remain and politicians don't have a clue what to do about it.

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I don't disagree with that.  There is a narrow mandate to leave - there is no mandate to leave without a deal.  That is not what we were promised prior to the referendum and it is absolutely NOT what Johnson said would happen a few days after the referendum.  If leaving with no deal is such a brilliant option why has the government had to spend billions preparing for the detrimental effects of it? 

I envy your optimism Jean..... believing what politicians promise in an election is "one step beyond" and into "the outer limits" of reality for me.... I avoided "the twilight zone" as being to obvious..... still can't do smilies.

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10 hours ago, colin said:

The mandate thing is not a lie. In the last GE and in recent European elections majority of voters voted for parties who oppose no deal. Also there is no mandate in parliament for no deal. And no deal was never on the table in the original referendum. 

Colin, it's a complete lie made up by remainers to split the brexit vote up.

"We can get a great deal" is not the same as "We will not leave without a deal"

 

Furthermore, the tories literally won a general election standing on a "no deal is better than a bad deal" manifesto. So there literally is a mandate for no deal.

There would also be a stronger mandate for no deal if Corbyn, Swinson and the SNP were not blocking a general election.

 

 

Edited by Regal Beagle

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21 hours ago, geosname said:

The only solid ground, and that's a bit shaky, in all the discussions around brexit is that more people voted to leave than remain.

The rest is guess, forecast, possibility, maybe, threat and hyperbole.

I think a large number of voters on both sides have refocused on the ineptitude of politicians and the pledges they don't keep.

I also think that saying we are doing this for your own good because you didn't know what you were doing rubs salt into the wound..... there will be a political price to pay.

Its going back a good way to 2016, but the general feeling was that the people needed to be more involved in politics, so Cameron gave us the referendum and "we will implement their decision", not thinking the leave vote would win, as quiet a few remain voters did hence they did not make the effort to vote. Has as been said people can change their minds, but labour did not take the tories to court after they lost the 2017 election, a democratic country does not do that, parliament as stifled the govenments effort to deliver on the result.  Come the election this parliament will suffer to the will of the people, and rue its behaviour to them...

   Now its parliament wringing its hands saying how BJ is being undemocratic conveniently forgetting what it has done. i must admit I do wonder how a lot of these mp's would take a second leave vote? the Thames would be full.

Ironic that most  in parliament are shouting and protesting as undemocratic, BJ's recent moves, yet will not deliver on the result of a democratic vote...

Finally, Cameron is back on  the scene to promote his book, and blair the war criminal is butting in as well (wonder how much he is charging for his opinion).

 

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On 10/09/2019 at 17:58, Regal Beagle said:

17.4 m at least want brexit. 

How do you know? 

Fact: 17.4 million voted leave in 2016.

But you can't possibly know the figure for who wants brexit now unless you've been around the country and asked every single person. In that case I'll let you off for thinking your opinions are facts. 

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1 hour ago, colin said:

You can't just go around calling people liars because you don't agree with them. Compromise will never be achieved with this sort of name calling.

Read the thread back colin and you will see that I'm fighting fire with fire. The usual suspects dont like it because it removes one of their favoured lies from the game (that lies influenced the brexit vote) 

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59 minutes ago, colin said:

How do you know? 

Fact: 17.4 million voted leave in 2016.

But you can't possibly know the figure for who wants brexit now unless you've been around the country and asked every single person. In that case I'll let you off for thinking your opinions are facts. 

Oh ok, and I suppose we should have a second vote to just check that we haven't changed our mind? 

Despite the 2017 GE.

Despite the euro elections.

Despite the current polls.

Because remainers thing that some people might have changed their mind, we should vote again?

 

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

Read the thread back colin and you will see that I'm fighting fire with fire. The usual suspects dont like it because it removes one of their favoured lies from the game (that lies influenced the brexit vote) 

Come on Regal,, you shouldn't blitheringly and repeatedly try and use this tactic that the lies, 350m to the NHS and immigration to tens of thousands/year, didn't influence voters, these statement were lies and influenced the Leave voters and how they voted massively. 

I would suggest there has never been two lies that have influenced the outcome of a single British election/referendum more than those two lies in the 2016 referendum.

 

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2 hours ago, colin said:

How do you know? 

Fact: 17.4 million voted leave in 2016.

But you can't possibly know the figure for who wants brexit now unless you've been around the country and asked every single person. In that case I'll let you off for thinking your opinions are facts. 

we don't know how many want it now, but does that matter, when we were asked in 2016 17.4 million knew what they wanted...

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58 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

we don't know how many want it now, but does that matter, when we were asked in 2016 17.4 million knew what they wanted...

Yes 17.4 million voted to leave the EU. But what was promised has not been delivered. We haven't been able to get the best trade deal in history so now what? We are stuck at an impasse with no mandate for no deal and with the withdrawal agreement unable to get through parliament. A GE may not solve anything either. 

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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

Come on Regal,, you shouldn't blitheringly and repeatedly try and use this tactic that the lies, 350m to the NHS and immigration to tens of thousands/year, didn't influence voters, these statement were lies and influenced the Leave voters and how they voted massively. 

I would suggest there has never been two lies that have influenced the outcome of a single British election/referendum more than those two lies in the 2016 referendum.

 

The Leave campaigns broke electoral law. 

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12 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Colin, it's a complete lie made up by remainers to split the brexit vote up.

"We can get a great deal" is not the same as "We will not leave without a deal"

 

Furthermore, the tories literally won a general election standing on a "no deal is better than a bad deal" manifesto. So there literally is a mandate for no deal.

There would also be a stronger mandate for no deal if Corbyn, Swinson and the SNP were not blocking a general election.

 

 

In the Tory 2017 manifesto they say once that no deal is better than bad deal. But in the government's eyes the deal that they negotiated was a good deal. So by your logic Theresa Mays deal has a mandate.

Majority of voters in the GE and European elections voted for parties who oppose no deal. That's a fact. It's not a lie!

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Also can't understand why some people think Labour are in the wrong for not being on the Leave side of things. Majority of their voters are remainers as are an even greater share of their members. Brexit will hit poorer Labour areas the hardest and Labour have always been the party for the working class. Anyone who thinks voting for the Brexit party is going to increase their quality of life has been well and truly conned.

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