Jump to content

Brexit again...


Recommended Posts

We were explicitly promised that we would decide. Not parliament.

We were promised if we vote to leave it wouldn't be a trigger of a new renegotiation and a remain vote.

Is this a mandate remainers or doesn't this count? 

 

 

Also see that the police will not proceeding with the smoking gun leave case. Another one bites the dust.

Not looking good on tuesday is it considering remainers form. LLLLLL 

Edited by Regal Beagle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • geosname

    1641

  • Fosse69

    1462

  • For Us All

    1405

  • Regal Beagle

    1054

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

Posted Images

1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

But it's fine to completely make up that there is no mandate for no deal? 

An advisory referendum does not give a mandate for anything, just politicians words that cant be trusted. Referenda properly used are in 2 stages , 1st vote for policy, 2nd vote for implementation, that is if you want to be democratic. Otherwise the politicians can foist anything on the people.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

It's pretty obvious there isn't, except in your na na land.

I'm trying to understand tommy but remainers are quite often not truthful.

For example, they argue that no one advocated no deal as a possibility before and during the referendum. This is not true, I've posted more than one video of prominent people including the PM and members of Government telling us that we would be leaving the single market and customs union. Telling us that there would be no second referendum.

 

So why do the comments from some politicians count more than others when it comes to "mandates".

If we play by your rules, and also are principled and honest, there is no mandate for deal.

If we play by my rules which are already principled and honest, there is a mandate for brexit, nothing more and nothing less.

 

So please explain.

 

I know it's very easy for you folk to just announce that I'm wrong and announce that I'm living in na na land or whatever. But you always seem to struggle to explain why.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

An advisory referendum does not give a mandate for anything, just politicians words that cant be trusted. Referenda properly used are in 2 stages , 1st vote for policy, 2nd vote for implementation, that is if you want to be democratic. Otherwise the politicians can foist anything on the people.

I could get on board with it but it flies in the face of everything that has been said in these threads for the last 3 years.

Not one remainer has ever advocated a second "implementation" referendum. They only want a second referendum with remain as an option.

 

Also, we didn't have these 2 stages when we chose to join the EC. We have not had any other votes on our relationship with the EU. Furthermore, that vote was also advisory and not legally binding.

So it would seem from your tone now that you disagree with our membership of the EU in its current form because proper democratic processes were not followed?

So please explain to me why in 1975 a non legally binding, advisory referendum has resulted in us being sucked deeper and deeper into the federal EU system which not one person in this country has ever actually directly voted for in any capacity?

Can you not see the issue with your argument?

 

2 weeks ago, remainers were shouting from the roof tops about how important our precedential constitutional system was. Now you are telling me that we should ignore the previous advisory referendum precedents? Why?

Why should this referendum by advisory in practice when none of the other ones were? When we were specifically told that it was not advisory and that our wishes for how we want to be  governed would be implemented.

 

My honest view point is that remainers don't care one bit about advisory votes, they don't care about the constitution, they don't care about precdents, they don't care about democracy.

They disagree with the result and simply flip flop to and from whatever the "best" anti-brexit argument is at the time.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

An advisory referendum does not give a mandate for anything, just politicians words that cant be trusted. Referenda properly used are in 2 stages , 1st vote for policy, 2nd vote for implementation, that is if you want to be democratic. Otherwise the politicians can foist anything on the people.

I very much suspect that a very large percentage of those who voted leave did so on the assumption they would get the great deal promised by Johnson, Farage, Gove and Co. I doubt very much that they anticipated no deal with it’s possible problems. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that 95% of those who voted leave did so because they wanted No Deal. That means the other 5% plus the Remain vote shows there is no mandate for no deal. It’s simple maths. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

If it was only an advisory referendum then Farage (not a supporter)would have had every right to use the ‘ unfinished business ‘ comment ,if the result had have been reversed?

Of course, democracy is continuous not set in stone at a particular date. As explained in another post, countries that rule by referenda have 2 referenda, the first is a vote on policy or project, the second is a vote on implementation. So people can change their mind if it is not what they expected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I very much suspect that a very large percentage of those who voted leave did so on the assumption they would get the great deal promised by Johnson, Farage, Gove and Co. I doubt very much that they anticipated no deal with it’s possible problems. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that 95% of those who voted leave did so because they wanted No Deal. That means the other 5% plus the Remain vote shows there is no mandate for no deal. It’s simple maths. 

It's quite simple maths if I guess a number that means my side would have won.

 

Why dont we assume that just 5 people voted leave but did not want no deal? 

 

Also we weren't told that we WOULD have a deal, we were told that we COULD have a deal. For everyone saying that there were 5 people telling us that deals were not possible in 2 years. 

 

Your mandate is complete and utter fabrication jacko. There is a mandate to leave. Remain is ruled out. Off the table. That's it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only solid ground, and that's a bit shaky, in all the discussions around brexit is that more people voted to leave than remain.

The rest is guess, forecast, possibility, maybe, threat and hyperbole.

I think a large number of voters on both sides have refocused on the ineptitude of politicians and the pledges they don't keep.

I also think that saying we are doing this for your own good because you didn't know what you were doing rubs salt into the wound..... there will be a political price to pay.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, geosname said:

The only solid ground, and that's a bit shaky, in all the discussions around brexit is that more people voted to leave than remain.

The rest is guess, forecast, possibility, maybe, threat and hyperbole.

 

I don't disagree with that.  There is a narrow mandate to leave - there is no mandate to leave without a deal.  That is not what we were promised prior to the referendum and it is absolutely NOT what Johnson said would happen a few days after the referendum.  If leaving with no deal is such a brilliant option why has the government had to spend billions preparing for the detrimental effects of it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I don't disagree with that.  There is a narrow mandate to leave - there is no mandate to leave without a deal.  That is not what we were promised prior to the referendum and it is absolutely NOT what Johnson said would happen a few days after the referendum.  If leaving with no deal is such a brilliant option why has the government had to spend billions preparing for the detrimental effects of it? 

Change costs money. No deal will not be detrimental long term, even your "experts" will tell you that.

The mandate thing is a lie jacko. Please stop spreading it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Change costs money. No deal will not be detrimental long term, even your "experts" will tell you that.

The mandate thing is a lie jacko. Please stop spreading it.

The mandate thing is not a lie. In the last GE and in recent European elections majority of voters voted for parties who oppose no deal. Also there is no mandate in parliament for no deal. And no deal was never on the table in the original referendum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    Moderators don't read everything. Please don't assume we'll spot rule breaking (e.g. personal abuse) - use the orange report button above a post to alert them.

    If you can't get on with another forum user you can select the "ignore" option. Simply click on the link below, type in their username and save - Click here




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy