Brexit again...

[Regal Beagle]

All racism is abhorrent

 

OMG that sounds exactly like something a racist would say!!!!

 

 

Enjoying this labour kicking tonight. If the tories are split down the middle, labour are shattered into tiny pieces.

 

They will surely have to go full 100% remain now in time for the next general election. They've spent 3 years dodging brexit

[Heatwave]

OMG that sounds exactly like something a racist would say!!!!

 

 

Enjoying this labour kicking tonight. If the tories are split down the middle, labour are shattered into tiny pieces.

 

They will surely have to go full 100% remain now in time for the next general election. They've spent 3 years dodging brexit

 

I wouldn't put it as baldly as that.

 

If the Leave vote has coalesced around the Brexit party then that for Remain haz done so around the Lib Dems and Greens. It would appear that the Lib Dems in particular have been the recipients of votes of disaffected Labour and Conservative voters that don't want Brexit.

 

Taking just those three parties as a guide, Brexit have 31% of the vote, Remain 33%. Obviously this is going to change during the night to come but it's going to show that the electorate are still split down the middle.

 

Of course, the only way this will be sorted out properly is by another referendum. Let's see if the Tories have the courage to call one.

[Fosse69]

Has anything really changed up to now? UKIP to Brexit, Con & Lab to Lib & Grn, country still split. Will anything change overnight.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Not really. I think the parties' positions will become more disparate, but awful as it's been for both Labour and tories, I don't think it will translate to anything permanent. In a weird way it could do Labour a favour if it makes us clarify our position. Lovely to see filth like Yaxley-Lennon and Carl Benjamin failing along with the clowns at ChUK, heartening to see the Greens doing well.

[Regal Beagle]

I wouldn't put it as baldly as that.

 

If the Leave vote has coalesced around the Brexit party then that for Remain haz done so around the Lib Dems and Greens. It would appear that the Lib Dems in particular have been the recipients of votes of disaffected Labour and Conservative voters that don't want Brexit.

 

Taking just those three parties as a guide, Brexit have 31% of the vote, Remain 33%. Obviously this is going to change during the night to come but it's going to show that the electorate are still split down the middle.

 

Of course, the only way this will be sorted out properly is by another referendum. Let's see if the Tories have the courage to call one.

 

Brexiters have been right from day 1 that any talk about a second referendum is simply bad losers wanting to overturn the result. It's an attack on democracy.

 

Nothing has changed since the vote. The people who voted for brexit still want brexit. It's time to honour the result.

 

Ironically, the one thing that has become clear is the total rejection of a middle ground "brexit".

[Joe B]

Brexiters have been right from day 1 that any talk about a second referendum is simply bad losers wanting to overturn the result. It's an attack on democracy.

 

Nothing has changed since the vote. The people who voted for brexit still want brexit. It's time to honour the result.

 

Ironically, the one thing that has become clear is the total rejection of a middle ground "brexit".

 

I don't disagree that tonight's results show the people who voted for Brexit still want Brexit, but it was the ill-definition of Brexit that forms the most stringent argument for a second ref.

 

Leading Brexiteers were fairly coy on what Brexit would concretely entail, with the overarching message that it would result in a full retention of sovereignty, with no hits to the economy, and the Irish border issue wasn't mentioned. Since then, we know that the mythical £350m isn't going to turn up, the Irish border does present a significant issue, and there are going to be at least some economic impact in going to WTO rules.

 

I'm not sitting here bleating because my team didn't win; its simply that, now we as a nation are far more informed about the EU, and what Brexit actually looks like, it might help to break the intractable parliamentary arithmetic by sayigh "you were promised a vague Brexit, this is what it looks like; do you still want it?"

 

If that was presented, I think leave would still shade it, probably by an even narrower margin than 2016. If Farage et al had been more upfront in 2016 in that "look, there will be friction with trade and at least a short-term hit to the sterling, but we'll reclaim sovereignty", then fair enough, no complaints. However, they presented a utopia of no economic hit and full sovereignty, a promise Mrs May fell on the sword of, as she failed to deliver the promised Brexit and instead of choosing economy or sovereignty, compromised in the middle of the two.

 

I hope my point comes through clearly enough. I'm not here to provoke or point-score. As things stand the Hard Brexit Party have 32% of the vote, and the Hard Remain Parties (LD and Green) have 32%. Even Brexit + UKIP is 35, and LD + Green + CHUK is 35. SNP and Plaid, on top of this being pro-remain, add to an additional remain vote. The country is as polarised as ever. John Curtice, ever on the nose, just called it a draw. The two sides of the debate have completely cancelled eachother out. All we know, as you say, is that the British public don't want a compromise; worrying for the health of our politics, in my view. Hard Brexit becomes more and more likely.

[geosname]

I don't disagree that tonight's results show the people who voted for Brexit still want Brexit, but it was the ill-definition of Brexit that forms the most stringent argument for a second ref.

 

Leading Brexiteers were fairly coy on what Brexit would concretely entail, with the overarching message that it would result in a full retention of sovereignty, with no hits to the economy, and the Irish border issue wasn't mentioned. Since then, we know that the mythical £350m isn't going to turn up, the Irish border does present a significant issue, and there are going to be at least some economic impact in going to WTO rules.

 

I'm not sitting here bleating because my team didn't win; its simply that, now we as a nation are far more informed about the EU, and what Brexit actually looks like, it might help to break the intractable parliamentary arithmetic by sayigh "you were promised a vague Brexit, this is what it looks like; do you still want it?"

 

If that was presented, I think leave would still shade it, probably by an even narrower margin than 2016. If Farage et al had been more upfront in 2016 in that "look, there will be friction with trade and at least a short-term hit to the sterling, but we'll reclaim sovereignty", then fair enough, no complaints. However, they presented a utopia of no economic hit and full sovereignty, a promise Mrs May fell on the sword of, as she failed to deliver the promised Brexit and instead of choosing economy or sovereignty, compromised in the middle of the two.

 

I hope my point comes through clearly enough. I'm not here to provoke or point-score. As things stand the Hard Brexit Party have 32% of the vote, and the Hard Remain Parties (LD and Green) have 32%. Even Brexit + UKIP is 35, and LD + Green + CHUK is 35. SNP and Plaid, on top of this being pro-remain, add to an additional remain vote. The country is as polarised as ever. John Curtice, ever on the nose, just called it a draw. The two sides of the debate have completely cancelled eachother out. All we know, as you say, is that the British public don't want a compromise; worrying for the health of our politics, in my view. Hard Brexit becomes more and more likely.

 

Good post.

The only thing problematic is the result of the 2nd referendum....... I think remain would just shade it..... which would bring us back to where we started..... in fact slightly worse than where we started.

[Paul6754]

If people from all walks of life in the UK thought Brexit was good for the UK it would be done and dusted by now. Brexit isn't done and dusted after almost 3 years, the Euro elections have just deepened the mess, someone needs to stop this circus.

 

Farage is a very dangerous man, he's charismatic, has the silky tongue, is very persuasive but is only skin deep. He's repeatedly tearing the UK apart and won't stop 'til he's achieved his aim and then he'll bugger off leaving someone else to clean up the mess again.

[Howjy04]

OMG that sounds exactly like something a racist would say!!!!

 

 

Enjoying this labour kicking tonight. If the tories are split down the middle, labour are shattered into tiny pieces.

 

They will surely have to go full 100% remain now in time for the next general election. They've spent 3 years dodging brexit

 

Emily Thornberry has said as much.She said they should be a remain party.

[Howjy04]

Is the Islington North result in yet?🤣

 

I wonder if another resignation is on the cards?

[Heatwave]

Brexiters have been right from day 1 that any talk about a second referendum is simply bad losers wanting to overturn the result. It's an attack on democracy.

 

Nothing has changed since the vote. The people who voted for brexit still want brexit. It's time to honour the result.

 

Ironically, the one thing that has become clear is the total rejection of a middle ground "brexit".

 

How could a second referendum be a negation of democracy? We're three years on from the first and we are now a lot clearer on what Brexit would involve - and it would be almost certain to be no deal. If you take the share of the vote in last week's election, the Leave parties are outvoted by some 6% by those proposing Remain. A case for another vote if ever there was one - whether referendum or general election only time will tell.

[Conrad]

Apparently Corbyn and May don’t like the results of the MEP elections, they want a second vote.

[Regal Beagle]

How could a second referendum be a negation of democracy? We're three years on from the first and we are now a lot clearer on what Brexit would involve - and it would be almost certain to be no deal. If you take the share of the vote in last week's election, the Leave parties are outvoted by some 6% by those proposing Remain. A case for another vote if ever there was one - whether referendum or general election only time will tell.

 

Ok but lets say there's another referendum and it's 51% remain 49% leave - what happens then?

 

What happens if it's 52-48 to remain?

 

If the EU election has told us anything it is that a magical second referendum will not resolve anything.

 

I can just about get on board with a referendum of brexit options (remain can not be an option).

 

Any attempt to overturn the result is not acceptable and will simply divide the country further.

[Regal Beagle]

I don't disagree that tonight's results show the people who voted for Brexit still want Brexit, but it was the ill-definition of Brexit that forms the most stringent argument for a second ref.

 

Leading Brexiteers were fairly coy on what Brexit would concretely entail, with the overarching message that it would result in a full retention of sovereignty, with no hits to the economy, and the Irish border issue wasn't mentioned. Since then, we know that the mythical £350m isn't going to turn up, the Irish border does present a significant issue, and there are going to be at least some economic impact in going to WTO rules.

 

I'm not sitting here bleating because my team didn't win; its simply that, now we as a nation are far more informed about the EU, and what Brexit actually looks like, it might help to break the intractable parliamentary arithmetic by sayigh "you were promised a vague Brexit, this is what it looks like; do you still want it?"

 

If that was presented, I think leave would still shade it, probably by an even narrower margin than 2016. If Farage et al had been more upfront in 2016 in that "look, there will be friction with trade and at least a short-term hit to the sterling, but we'll reclaim sovereignty", then fair enough, no complaints. However, they presented a utopia of no economic hit and full sovereignty, a promise Mrs May fell on the sword of, as she failed to deliver the promised Brexit and instead of choosing economy or sovereignty, compromised in the middle of the two.

 

I hope my point comes through clearly enough. I'm not here to provoke or point-score. As things stand the Hard Brexit Party have 32% of the vote, and the Hard Remain Parties (LD and Green) have 32%. Even Brexit + UKIP is 35, and LD + Green + CHUK is 35. SNP and Plaid, on top of this being pro-remain, add to an additional remain vote. The country is as polarised as ever. John Curtice, ever on the nose, just called it a draw. The two sides of the debate have completely cancelled eachother out. All we know, as you say, is that the British public don't want a compromise; worrying for the health of our politics, in my view. Hard Brexit becomes more and more likely.

 

Good post, I am not sure anyone said that that there would be no economic hit as there is the possibility that Brexit will be good for the economy (long term).

 

And conversely we had the project fear stuff doing exactly the same on the other side of the coin, focusing on purely the negatives.

 

If a second referendum was to determine HOW we leave then I can get on board with it, although even then it's a futile exercise because the EU wont negotiate again.

 

And to clear something up from my end - If we leave the EU and then the next general election was won by a clear remain manifesto then that is democracy.

 

What is not acceptable is to overturn the result of the brexit vote without leaving.

[Conrad]

Ok but lets say there's another referendum and it's 51% remain 49% leave - what happens then?

 

What happens if it's 52-48 to remain?

 

If the EU election has told us anything it is that a magical second referendum will not resolve anything.

 

I can just about get on board with a referendum of brexit options (remain can not be an option).

 

Any attempt to overturn the result is not acceptable and will simply divide the country further.

Could go for a best of three.