Brexit again...

[JohnJames]

 

Here’s a badge for the Brexshit bunch

[Fosse69]

Probably because they'd suffer enormously if they didn't.

 

So it is OK for steel workers to suffer then?

[For Us All]

So it is OK for steel workers to suffer then?

 

It's not OK for anybody to suffer.

[Fosse69]

It's not OK for anybody to suffer.

 

Then why not nationalize on national security grounds otherwise we are dependent on imports for high quality steel

[JohnJames]

This is another Piece of Brexit ********.

EU law actually protects the rights of EU nations to Nationalise industries.

 

https://www.anothereurope.org/lets-be-clear-nationalisation-is-not-against-eu-law/

 

Our problem is we’ve got a Tory Government who Are incapable of acting in the National Interest.

[Warren]

State aid rules are applied strictly. There is the case of Estonia Airlines for instance. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6023_en.htm

 

Here's the link to more comprehensive information.

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_sa_by_date

 

Where we come back to over and over again is energy costs. In the UK priority is given to domestic consumers in the tax regime. In Germany it is industry that is given priority. So its about hard choices in the economy.

 

The Government have been prepared to enter in to loan agreements and other forms of support. But if these do not change the circumstances to create a viable business, then the plant has to close. The answer definitely isn't nationalization. That just visits ever lasting loss on the public purse or more likely falls foul of the very same state aid rules.

 

When contemplating capitalism, with all its many downsides, against state socialism / communism of the type Corbyn supports there are perfect indicators of long term outcome available. Take East and West Germany. At unification who was doing better. West Germany by a trillion miles.

[mr.hobblesworth]

It looks like a near impossible task for MPs to stop a prime minister who is determined to leave the EU without a deal. Parliamentary procedure offers no route, and the only apparent way to blocking no deal – a vote of no confidence – would be a massive gamble for Tory MPs.

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/new-prime-minister-intent-no-deal-brexit-cant-be-stopped-mps-0

[Fosse69]

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/new-prime-minister-intent-no-deal-brexit-cant-be-stopped-mps-0

 

There are plenty of associated bills that could be blocked if MPs are so minded, business and industry backers can also put pressure on funding. Depends whether a Tory split comes about. Very uncertain times ahead.

[Warren]

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/new-prime-minister-intent-no-deal-brexit-cant-be-stopped-mps-0

 

I get to vote in the election of the new Tory Leader. I am concerned about what I will be left to vote for in the MP's reducing the choice to two. So, given normal circumstances I would probably favour someone like Michael Gove. I think he has learned lessons from being in government and having some failure. He also stuck at it, trying to influence from the inside whilst the Maybot took wrong path after wrong path.

 

But he ain't going to cut it. The Conservatives face an existential threat, which may already be beyond recovery. Maybe Labour do as well from the Lib Dems. So it has to be Boris, a political beast who will step on the national stage and say and do stuff decisively. In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona. The Maybot couldn't even manage that open goal in a general election she called coming up with the worst manifesto and worst leadership of a campaign ever.

 

Boris will need to call and win a general election. That is where we are at. He probably needs a year to do that which means withdraw Article 50 and reset to leave via no deal but when all preparation has been made. In my view. I am sad about the Northern Island border situation, it is really serious and maybe insurmountable if the peace treaty is worded in such a way it can't be negotiated. But what can't happen is doing the same.

[Heatwave]

I get to vote in the election of the new Tory Leader. I am concerned about what I will be left to vote for in the MP's reducing the choice to two. So, given normal circumstances I would probably favour someone like Michael Gove. I think he has learned lessons from being in government and having some failure. He also stuck at it, trying to influence from the inside whilst the Maybot took wrong path after wrong path.

 

But he ain't going to cut it. The Conservatives face an existential threat, which may already be beyond recovery. Maybe Labour do as well from the Lib Dems. So it has to be Boris, a political beast who will step on the national stage and say and do stuff decisively. In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona. The Maybot couldn't even manage that open goal in a general election she called coming up with the worst manifesto and worst leadership of a campaign ever.

 

Boris will need to call and win a general election. That is where we are at. He probably needs a year to do that which means withdraw Article 50 and reset to leave via no deal but when all preparation has been made. In my view. I am sad about the Northern Island border situation, it is really serious and maybe insurmountable if the peace treaty is worded in such a way it can't be negotiated. But what can't happen is doing the same.

 

Making a lot of assumptions there aren't we?

 

The declared front runner in leadership elections rarely wins. I fully expect Boris to come to grief - probably by some ill considered comment, after all he has history for it as a lady currently in prison in Iran will testify.

 

The Tory party will look into the abyss and realise the folly of letting Boris Johnson anywhere near the party leadership and the Prime Minister's office.

[Heatwave]

Then why not nationalize on national security grounds otherwise we are dependent on imports for high quality steel

 

Seeing as Scunthorpe supplies almost all of Network Rail's requirements, and seeing as Network Rail is publicly owned, it wouldn't be a massive step for the works to be nationalised. It would, however, be prevented by an ideology that would sooner see 25,000 people lose their jobs.

[mr.hobblesworth]

In particular he will stop playing nice with Corbyn and focus properly on this guy's nasty history and Marxist in a suit persona.

 

I know I'm biased but I don't think that washed with the public any more. When JC was first elected as leader, the first statement made by a tory (Fallon IIRC) was about how he was a threat to national security. That seems to be the main line of attack since and I don't think it's hurt him very much at all. The 'magic money tree' line was much more effective but now Labour can easily counter that with the extra cash the DUP were provided with to shore up May. Any election campaign, (especially if it happens once Brexit has been resolved (and **** knows how that's going to happen)), will IMO be fought on the conservatives record vs Labour 'economic irresponsibility' and I think we'll rip you a new one :) I also think green issues will be to the fore and that seems to be something Corbyn's Labour will be much stronger on. I'd also like to see Labour go in promising electoral reform and lowering the age of voting to 16, thus locking the tories out for generations.

 

I also think Boris Johnson would be disastrous for the tories and very much hope he gets in. Unfortunately, I doubt he'll get in to the final two.

[Heatwave]

Maybe too late but being a member of the EU for so many years has killed our manufacturing industry.

 

Like they did in Germany you mean? Give your head a wobble.

 

Free market economics and globalisation did for our manufacturing industry, not the EU.

[geosname]

I know I'm biased but I don't think that washed with the public any more. When JC was first elected as leader, the first statement made by a tory (Fallon IIRC) was about how he was a threat to national security. That seems to be the main line of attack since and I don't think it's hurt him very much at all. The 'magic money tree' line was much more effective but now Labour can easily counter that with the extra cash the DUP were provided with to shore up May. Any election campaign, (especially if it happens once Brexit has been resolved (and **** knows how that's going to happen)), will IMO be fought on the conservatives record vs Labour 'economic irresponsibility' and I think we'll rip you a new one :) I also think green issues will be to the fore and that seems to be something Corbyn's Labour will be much stronger on. I'd also like to see Labour go in promising electoral reform and lowering the age of voting to 16, thus locking the tories out for generations.

 

I also think Boris Johnson would be disastrous for the tories and very much hope he gets in. Unfortunately, I doubt he'll get in to the final two.

 

If a GE is called quickly and Labour fight on economics they will lose it.... it will play it's part but I doubt it will be the HOT topic.

Boris is a distraction, the loss leader if you will.

I think the voting age should be increased not decreased.... but it won't happen.

The two party system will crack but linger on for a while yet.

[Heatwave]

If a GE is called quickly and Labour fight on economics they will lose it.... it will play it's part but I doubt it will be the HOT topic.

Boris is a distraction, the loss leader if you will.

I think the voting age should be increased not decreased.... but it won't happen.

The two party system will crack but linger on for a while yet.

 

I think it would take major defections from both parties to Change UK/Lib Dems to make any kind of impact electorally. It would also need Heidi Allen and Vince Cable to merge their parties or have some sort of electoral pact. Only then, if they won an election, could they get the legislation through for proportional representation that would be the death knell for the two party system.

 

A big ask on all counts which is why it's not going to happen any time soon.