Brexit again...

[JohnJames]

Hmm and what were the leading remainiacs saying?

 

Well they didn’t actually foresee the waste of 2.4 billion preparing for a No Deal.

[geosname]

Did I hear right via the BBC - Now there is a six-month extension politicians can now go on hollibobs?

 

Or is my radio on the blink?

 

They are going hoping it's not still there when they crawl back..... your radio is fine mate.... it's just the crap broadcast.

[geosname]

Well they didn’t actually foresee the waste of 2.4 billion preparing for a No Deal.

 

Surely they should have foreseen that before the referendum was called and used it in the campaign to remain.

[For Us All]

Did I hear right via the BBC - Now there is a six-month extension politicians can now go on hollibobs?

 

Or is my radio on the blink?

 

Channel 4 is the one to avoid Barry,there was some presenter on there the other week at a pro-Brexit march in London saying that "he'd never seen so many white people in one place”.

He needs to get out more.

[For Us All]

Surely they should have foreseen that before the referendum was called and used it in the campaign to remain.

 

Good point.

[ginge]

Not relevant so I wont answer.

 

You don't know do you?

[TheSage]

There are lots of valid points mate..... there are lots of valid counter points too.... that's where it comes unstuck.... the problem is that promises have been made and are now being renaged on..... in or out...... no customs union.... no chr...... no dictating eurocrats ... etc... that's what was promised and it can't simply be sidestepped because they all promised it.

 

Geo, when the vote was taken there were conflicting statements about what might happen. It categorically wasn't clear. There were lots of different views aired.

 

To give you but 2 examples;

"I would vote to stay in the single market," Johnson said before the referendum.

The government’s leaflet supporting Remain during the referendum said leaving meant there was a risk the UK could lose “full access” to the single market, but didn’t rule it out.

 

This Ground Zero crash and burn No Deal has only appeared since we've been unable to finalise a deal.

No sensible politician talked about it before the vote but it's now suddenly become the accepted norm by right wing extremists.

[TheSage]

Thank the Lord we have the Easter recess and a break from all this.

[Regal Beagle]

You don't know do you?

 

It's not relevant?

[Regal Beagle]

Geo, when the vote was taken there were conflicting statements about what might happen. It categorically wasn't clear. There were lots of different views aired.

 

To give you but 2 examples;

"I would vote to stay in the single market," Johnson said before the referendum.

The government’s leaflet supporting Remain during the referendum said leaving meant there was a risk the UK could lose “full access” to the single market, but didn’t rule it out.

 

This Ground Zero crash and burn No Deal has only appeared since we've been unable to finalise a deal.

No sensible politician talked about it before the vote but it's now suddenly become the accepted norm by right wing extremists.

 

Simply not true again.

[ginge]

It's not relevant?

[Jacko51]

Hmm and what were the leading remainiacs saying?

 

They were saying that we couldn't have our cake and eat it as far as the single market was concerned. Several of them, including the Prof of International Law at Liverpool Uni whose name escapes me, made a twenty minute video outlining all the ways in which we were tied into the EU and how difficult it would be to extricate ourselves.

[Heatwave]

They were saying that we couldn't have our cake and eat it as far as the single market was concerned. Several of them, including the Prof of International Law at Liverpool Uni whose name escapes me, made a twenty minute video outlining all the ways in which we were tied into the EU and how difficult it would be to extricate ourselves.

 

So let's not. Roll on BrexitRef2.

[geosname]

Geo, when the vote was taken there were conflicting statements about what might happen. It categorically wasn't clear. There were lots of different views aired.

 

To give you but 2 examples;

"I would vote to stay in the single market," Johnson said before the referendum.

The government’s leaflet supporting Remain during the referendum said leaving meant there was a risk the UK could lose “full access” to the single market, but didn’t rule it out.

 

This Ground Zero crash and burn No Deal has only appeared since we've been unable to finalise a deal.

No sensible politician talked about it before the vote but it's now suddenly become the accepted norm by right wing extremists.

 

Sage..... I agree it's been a total screw up from start to finish, or to where we are now because it's nowhere near finished.

From the over simplistic yes no question to the vindictive votes and beyond.

The biggest fear I have about the situation, apart from the political aftermath, is that we decide by default. The two prominent options seem to be no deal or a customs union, which I think came closest to a consensus,.

The no deal scenario has it's obvious in sight problems, not impossible and probably not impractical but certainly painful.

Customs union is more covertly dangerous. The EU negotiate our trade deals but we don't take part in those negotiations, they agree the deals for their benefit not ours and we have to comply. The reciprocating countries are not, repeat not, bound by law to take our goods but we are obligated to take theirs.... which in effect means legally we have to take goods, say from Vietnam, but Vietnam is not legally bound to accept ours.

I think that could be extremely dangerous to our economy with the added disadvantage of giving the EU more power over us than they do now... it's actually worse than being in the EU... it throws sovereignty away with a smile.

Sadly I think that the situation is so corrosive that MPs will grasp it as a way forward to end the mess they have created...... I think it was the closest to winning of the vindictive votes and that alone blows Mays deal out of the water.

There should have been a long discussion about the costs, consequences and benefits of brexit...... no project fear or euphoric rhetoric.... just hard fact discussion... there wasn't, just gung ho we will win crap.

The people voted on the information they had..... the voters weren't wrong whichever side they were on therefore neither side was right.... the voters didn't screw this up the politicians did.... partly by making it a party issue not a national conundrum.... the sooner the electorate grasp this nettle the better the chance of uniting the people if not the politicians.

[geosname]

Another possible consequence of this cluster **** is the political aftermath of whatever decision is finally come to.... leave, remain, second referendum or any other possibility....

I think the political landscape could shift dramatically seeing a rise of fringe parties, especially but not exclusively in leave areas... the new brexit party being one but I doubt the last before a general election.... let's not forget the new independent party of rebels who could attract disenfranchised sitting Mps.. although the public at large may well forget them.

The worry is the far right and far left... both disastrous options that could easily benefit from the chaos.

I'm all in favour of shaking the party system out of its complacency but an extreme party on either end of the spectrum is dangerous to everyone.

I like the idea of elected members representing the constituency first and foremost, getting to parliament and forming a consensus nationally that represents their constituency as best they can..... no whips.... no coercion... no threats of expulsion or position loss etc etc...... just agreement from countrywide local representatives about what's best for the whole, not what's best to gain , regain or hold on to power.... yeh right I hear you say, that won't happen.... and sadly I agree it won't.

 

OTT definitions.

 

Far left..... everyone is the same..... state control of everything.

 

Far right.... greed is acceptable... grab what you can.