Brexit again...

[Jacko51]

Yeah it used to be good when it wasn't trying to found a super state.

 

So you don't object to the economic benefits of the EU?

[JohnJames]

It may have something to do with Singapore signing a Free Trade deal with the EU.

[Regal Beagle]

So you don't object to the economic benefits of the EU?

 

As long as you don't object to the economic benefits outside of the EU.

[TheSage]

There is a block of 600 million who all want different things and are pulling in different directions.

 

All very well talking about how great the single market is. How about you admit how terrible it is that we have given away our sovereignty to access it?

 

Your description surely suits the UK better than the EU who have spoken with one united voice for the past three years.

 

And I'm not sure how you figure that joining the single market was giving away our sovereignty when we chose to join it in the first place. Nobody forced us to.

 

And this mythical sovereignty is a strange thing. Are we better, for example, in or out of NATO? Did we give away our sovereignty to join that? Or are we better off out, on our own?

[Regal Beagle]

Your description surely suits the UK better than the EU who have spoken with one united voice for the past three years.

 

And I'm not sure how you figure that joining the single market was giving away our sovereignty when we chose to join it in the first place. Nobody forced us to.

 

And this mythical sovereignty is a strange thing. Are we better, for example, in or out of NATO? Did we give away our sovereignty to join that? Or are we better off out, on our own?

 

1. Yes they speak with a "United voice" because they only have one voice. Exactly what I'm trying to tell you. There's 4-5 countries where an in out referendum would be in the balance. That is not a united EU.

 

And surely, by your logic, if the UK is so divided with 70m people then the EU is much more divided with 600m who all want different things.

 

 

2. I didn't say anyone forced us to give up our sovereignty, I said we gave it away, which you appear to agree with whilst trying to disagree with it?

3. Mythical sovereignty? Nothing mythical about it, unless it's mythical because our sovereignty doesn't exist? In which case I agree with you.

[TheSage]

Answer the question. Are we better off in or out of NATO?

 

I take the philosophical point about making our own decisions but sometimes we make decisions to join bigger organisations because we are stronger together rather than on our own. Or don't you accept that either?

 

And if you can't give ground and see what a great economic benefit our membership of the EU has been then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[whotobeakiller]

Answer the question. Are we better off in or out of NATO?

 

I take the philosophical point about making our own decisions but sometimes we make decisions to join bigger organisations because we are stronger together rather than on our own. Or don't you accept that either?

 

And if you can't give ground and see what a great economic benefit our membership of the EU has been then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Its been good for big business ang people with property portfolios but the benefis dont trickle down and people have had enough.

 

No deal brexit will affect big business who will have to rethink how workers are remunerated and consider how passing off tariff charges will affect how consumers will choose to behave in spending terms.

 

Frankly myself and people like me dont give a damn..why should we...nothing to lose everything to gain

[For Us All]

Your description surely suits the UK better than the EU who have spoken with one united voice for the past three years.

 

And I'm not sure how you figure that joining the single market was giving away our sovereignty when we chose to join it in the first place. Nobody forced us to.

 

And this mythical sovereignty is a strange thing. Are we better, for example, in or out of NATO? Did we give away our sovereignty to join that? Or are we better off out, on our own?

 

Let's see if there's one united voice at the next EU elections.It seems that more people are getting a bit fed up of this dictatorship and populism is on the rise.

[For Us All]

Answer the question. Are we better off in or out of NATO?

 

I take the philosophical point about making our own decisions but sometimes we make decisions to join bigger organisations because we are stronger together rather than on our own. Or don't you accept that either?

 

And if you can't give ground and see what a great economic benefit our membership of the EU has been then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Well,Austria,Finland,Ireland,Malta and Sweden don't seem to be too bothered about not being in NATO.They obviously don't think we're stronger together do they after opting out?

[Regal Beagle]

Answer the question. Are we better off in or out of NATO?

 

I take the philosophical point about making our own decisions but sometimes we make decisions to join bigger organisations because we are stronger together rather than on our own. Or don't you accept that either?

 

And if you can't give ground and see what a great economic benefit our membership of the EU has been then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

I don't know what NATO has to do with anything?

 

Yet again I could switch 1-2 words and direct your post right back at you.

 

I've said from day one that I believe no brexiteer would be against a FREE TRADE UNION. It's the political union that we don't want, it's the threats and the lack of control and accountability that we're sick of.

 

You tell me why a political union is so good.

[Jacko51]

As long as you don't object to the economic benefits outside of the EU.

 

I don't know what they are going to be. It's all based on hope and crossed fingers at the moment.

[Jacko51]

I don't know what NATO has to do with anything?

 

Yet again I could switch 1-2 words and direct your post right back at you.

 

I've said from day one that I believe no brexiteer would be against a FREE TRADE UNION. It's the political union that we don't want, it's the threats and the lack of control and accountability that we're sick of.

 

You tell me why a political union is so good.

 

Why have so many Brexiteer MPs been so opposed to the idea of a customs union which would give us free trade with the EU? Why are you so convinced that we wouldn't veto the concept of a European federal superstate? We didn't join the Euro. We've never been in Schengen. There are opt outs in Justice and Home Affairs and the Human Rights Charter. We don't HAVE to join anything and if the EU ever said we did, that would have been the time to leave, not when we have influence over what happens in the EU.

[TheSage]

Well,Austria,Finland,Ireland,Malta and Sweden don't seem to be too bothered about not being in NATO.They obviously don't think we're stronger together do they after opting out?

 

You do give some obscure examples when you try and make a point.

First it was comparing us to Singapore economically and now places like Malta and Finland.

Malta isn't a member but closely aligned to Britain and NATO.

. Ireland has adopted a neutral stance for a long time, like the Swiss. Austria too. After the War it was written into its constitution.

And those 5 very small countries all together have only half the population of the UK, so are not exactly military superpowers.

But we digress.

 

The reason why I mentioned NATO was because I was trying to make the point [that none of you appear to want to accept] that sometimes pooling our resources and sovereignty if you want to call it that is beneficial to us and makes a lot of sense.

So in that regard the EU is like NATO, or the UN, or indeed the Commonwealth.

Or don't you accept that often it is better to be in a club and pool resources in this way?

Would you rather we were in NATO or out of it?

[TheSage]

I accept that there is a valid point of view surrounding "sovereignty" though I think its more a philosophical point then the practical reality.

But, yes, it's a fair point to make if you think all decisions should be made by our Parliament and not in part in Europe.

 

That said I'm not aware of too many decisions made in Europe that have been so dreadful and damaging to us that some folk are hopping mad.

We do have a veto. We are allowed to opt out of certain things, like the Euro, and we do have a seat at the table. We have European elections and we do sit on the Commission.

 

In 1975 I voted to leave! But over the last 44 years I've seen the benefits it has given us and now I'd rather stay.

 

But as I've said before I'd be happy to see a Soft Brexit that would give us access to the trading market and appease those who voted to leave.

The growing political unity does concern some folk and I accept that entirely.

[mr.hobblesworth]

One of the perks/ drags of my job is that I can also count votes at elections. The extension to article 50 means that not only do I get to laugh at apoplectic gammon and earn loads of £££ but I will also get to spend the night in a hotel rather than help my wife with the baby. Happy days. I'm hoping that there will be loads of spoilt papers this year as they really brighten up the count. My favourite was in the Manchester Mayoral elections when, for some reason, someone scrawled '**** off Boris' on their slip. And the person who drew a penis rather than marking a cross next to their favoured candidate's name. Imagine trekking to the local polling station just to do that. (Obviously FUA would lack the wherewithal and originality of thought to even do that and would need to smuggle a copy of The Daily Mail in to his booth so he could copy something down.)