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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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Why have so many Brexiteer MPs been so opposed to the idea of a customs union which would give us free trade with the EU? Why are you so convinced that we wouldn't veto the concept of a European federal superstate? We didn't join the Euro. We've never been in Schengen. There are opt outs in Justice and Home Affairs and the Human Rights Charter. We don't HAVE to join anything and if the EU ever said we did, that would have been the time to leave, not when we have influence over what happens in the EU.

 

I will try to guess some of the answers....

Customs union.... comes at a cost... restricts other trade... free movement of people etc... other things are tied into it.

Veto..... it's the unknown you don't like.... we may not be able to.

Euro... the experts and others said it would be a disaster if we DIDN'T join the Euro.

Opt outs... can we opt out of all or just bits.

We don't have to join .... we can stop free movement?... we can trade free elsewhere?

 

Like any contract it's not what is in the main body of the agreement that causes the problems.... it's always in the details.

 

I think we joined a common market and got lead by the nose into an EU .... what will stop us being lead into a federal state?... meps?..... parliament?.... a referendum?

 

I think Lord Cooper said.... the question is not what (the UK) parliament can or cannot do but who can stop them..... the same question would apply to any parliament.

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I think remainers are playing the wrong game and have been since the start.

It seems to be based around leaving is wrong as opposed to remaining is right.

Instead of extolling the benefits of remaining in the EU time and effort was/is wasted decrying brexit lies and misconceptions... (when the government leaflet to remain wasn't exactly totaly honest)... it's a far stronger argument to win by convincing someone you are right then proving they are wrong.... it may sound the same but it isn't.... a willing ally is better than a coersed ally.

 

Unfortunately that's how party politics presents itself...... the opposition is always wrong and you are always right.

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Just a question..... or three

 

If you joined a group of people that proved very beneficial to you financially and were asked, after a period of reaping those benefits, to join something else that seemed inconsequential at the time..... would you join?

If you answer yes.... why?

If you answer no...... if it was pointed out that not joining meant you would lose the financial benefits you enjoy at present... would you join?

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So you don't object to the economic benefits of the EU?

 

Is it the economic benefits of the EU or the common market.?

 

We joined the common market..... great idea.

We slid into a EU.... not such a great idea but still had common market benefits.

Will we slide into an EU state?..... I hope not, not a good idea, but still with common market benefits.... proving it's easy to be lead and not all ideas are good?

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1.

 

2. I didn't say anyone forced us to give up our sovereignty, I said we gave it away, which you appear to agree with whilst trying to disagree with it?

3. Mythical sovereignty? Nothing mythical about it, unless it's mythical because our sovereignty doesn't exist? In which case I agree with you.

 

Regal, You keep trotting out this nebulous statement about the UK getting its sovereignty back when it leaves the EU, exactly what do you mean by this and give examples of "What sovereignty" the UK will get back.

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One of the perks/ drags of my job is that I can also count votes at elections. The extension to article 50 means that not only do I get to laugh at apoplectic gammon and earn loads of £££ but I will also get to spend the night in a hotel rather than help my wife with the baby. Happy days. I'm hoping that there will be loads of spoilt papers this year as they really brighten up the count. My favourite was in the Manchester Mayoral elections when, for some reason, someone scrawled '**** off Boris' on their slip. And the person who drew a penis rather than marking a cross next to their favoured candidate's name. Imagine trekking to the local polling station just to do that. (Obviously FUA would lack the wherewithal and originality of thought to even do that and would need to smuggle a copy of The Daily Mail in to his booth so he could copy something down.)

 

Attacking the poster again.

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You do give some obscure examples when you try and make a point.

First it was comparing us to Singapore economically and now places like Malta and Finland.

Malta isn't a member but closely aligned to Britain and NATO.

. Ireland has adopted a neutral stance for a long time, like the Swiss. Austria too. After the War it was written into its constitution.

And those 5 very small countries all together have only half the population of the UK, so are not exactly military superpowers.

But we digress.

 

The reason why I mentioned NATO was because I was trying to make the point [that none of you appear to want to accept] that sometimes pooling our resources and sovereignty if you want to call it that is beneficial to us and makes a lot of sense.

So in that regard the EU is like NATO, or the UN, or indeed the Commonwealth.

Or don't you accept that often it is better to be in a club and pool resources in this way?

Would you rather we were in NATO or out of it?

 

The similarity to Singapore was based on the fact that a small island was prepared to go it alone.A country with a very dense population and with a GDP also very much like ours with roughly 25% based on industry and 75% on services.

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But they haven't gone it alone! That was my main point.

Singapore belongs to three trading blocks - including ASEAN.

 

I know many on the right like to quote Singapore but it's simply not a meaningful comparison.

Blimey, the only place you can find to try and prove a point is 6,700 miles away.

 

Singapore benefits from its deep water ports and location on the world's busiest trade routes. We don't have that.

It is susceptible to the trade wars currently between China and the US. Hence, its growth has dropped to its lowest level for ten years. We are not susceptible to that either.

You simply can't go it alone in 2019. You have to be in a powerful trading block or you'll get eaten alive.

 

Following on from what others have said above, Singapore's economy has boomed yes, yet is the most expensive city in the world. It also has one of the most unequal societies. No state pension. State owned housing. On-line restrictions. Anti LGBT laws. Freedom of speech is curtailed. Demonstrations likewise. Its Human Rights record is poor.

 

It's also got an ageing population and relies on foreign workers! Its economy needs them. Out of its small population over 1.6 million are foreigners. 75% are Chinese. It's a multi-racial country.

 

I'll stress again. There is not a single developed economy anywhere in the world that trades solely on WTO rules. They all belong to a trading block in part or as a whole because they recognise that the world has moved on since the 1950s.

 

I'm still waiting to see if some of you think we should cede some of our "sovereignty" and be in [or out] of NATO.

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I think remainers are playing the wrong game and have been since the start.

It seems to be based around leaving is wrong as opposed to remaining is right.

Instead of extolling the benefits of remaining in the EU time and effort was/is wasted decrying brexit lies and misconceptions... (when the government leaflet to remain wasn't exactly totaly honest)... it's a far stronger argument to win by convincing someone you are right then proving they are wrong.... it may sound the same but it isn't.... a willing ally is better than a coersed ally.

 

It's a fair point and one that I've been trying to push on here.

 

The problem is a lot of folk are not open to change or dare admit that they might be mistaken or that another poster has made a valid point.

 

We all see things through our own biased eyes - me included - but as I said above I voted out in 1975 but have come to recognise the benefits overall of being in the EU against a leap into the unknown into a world that no longer exists.

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It's a fair point and one that I've been trying to push on here.

 

The problem is a lot of folk are not open to change or dare admit that they might be mistaken or that another poster has made a valid point.

 

We all see things through our own biased eyes - me included - but as I said above I voted out in 1975 but have come to recognise the benefits overall of being in the EU against a leap into the unknown into a world that no longer exists.

 

It must be hugely empowering to be able to dismiss the views of 17.4 million people

 

When will it hit home that leavers wanted a Free trade deal...no political ties nor conditions imposed upon them

 

Ask yourself the question why the EU won't give us a free trade deal...and thus end this nonsense.

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Which EU laws do you disagree with?

 

How about restricting workers rights to work

 

How about restricting the UK's right to seek trade deals outside the EU

 

 

How about the law imposed to let thousand of people into our country each year

 

How about restricting nationalisation of major industries

 

How about restricting smaller business through red tape (So called rights of origin supplies for one..very petty)

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