PVFC Meet delegation of fans regarding current concerns

[Vale1995]

18 minutes ago, philmpv said:

27 minutes ago, bobbymanc said:

Absolutely. Start a campaign suggesting that supporters don't renew their season tickets, buy the new shirt, buy event tickets etc until Flickers is gone. Set up a picket line around the club shop and ticket office to put off potential scabs. This is OUR club Carol. We'll get our way because Port Vale is the fans. No fans, no club. Listen to the room and do the right thing.

So those who won't agree with the perceived 'majority' view will be scabs and it's a case of mob rule? Jesus Christ

'Percieved majority' look on social media look everywhere everyone ive seen thinks his position is untenable . Listen on the terraces on praise and grumble on here . 

[Guitar Ray]

1 hour ago, bobbymanc said:

Absolutely. Start a campaign suggesting that supporters don't renew their season tickets, buy the new shirt, buy event tickets etc until Flickers is gone. Set up a picket line around the club shop and ticket office to put off potential scabs. This is OUR club Carol. We'll get our way because Port Vale is the fans. No fans, no club. Listen to the room and do the right thing.

Why not start it yourself.  Get theesen picketing outside the club shop next home game.

[valefan79]

2 hours ago, philmpv said:

So sick of all the name calling, abuse, etc being directed at all and sundry on social media and at games. Most of you are grown men FFS.

Surely the most effective way for those who want to protest is to vote with your feet and your wallets. Don't go to games, don't buy a ST, and basically don't put any money into the club at all. This will give Carol only 3 options:

1. Increase her subsidy of the club to keep it going and DF in place;

2. Sell the club, which would mean DF goes too;

3. Get rid of DF and hope the missing fans return.

Hitting someone in their pocket is usually the most guaranteed way to effect the change that some of you crave
 

Disagree, under previous regimes this was the right way to go about it as the money was being pocketed by the likes of Smurthwaite.  We now have owners who are not the issue, I will have the occasional moan about them but we all know what the problem is.  He has to be removed from this club and continued protests about him is the only way for him to go.  I dont feel starving the club of finances is the way forward.

[Playa Amodores]

3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

My response was because a poster suggested those at the meeting weren't genuine fans.  There were young people there as well.  Take myself and my better half away and the average age is dramatically reduced!  I'm not sure why Joe Biden is relevant in this debate - is he a closet Vale fan??

You mentioned 8 ppl in attendance had over 500 years of following PVFC. Then added 3 on zoom, hardly a cross section of the fan base. OVF is only a small minority of the fans.

I mentioned Biden because your argument seems to suggest that older ppl know best, I’d suggest that they’ve lost the fight. I’m over 60 myself and I certainly don’t know everything, in fact I know very little and my fighting spirit is on the decline. It was a selected hand picked compliant audience. Perhaps some of those rowdy fans individuals who sit in the RP next to the Hamil should have been invited. I’d class it as another chance for her to pull the wool over ppls eyes. She’s not interested in PVFC on the pitch and when will she  actually realise the club has hit rock bottom. Why doesn’t she test the market and put the club up for sale. ST’s won’t give the full picture as some fans will feel compelled to renew. 

[Jacko51]

6 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

I mentioned Biden because your argument seems to suggest that older ppl know best,

I suggested nothing of the sort. The people in that meeting were all known to each other from previous campaigns against owners at Vale. We fought against the self interest of V2001 and the disgraceful ownership of Norman Smuthwaite.  In this case we had no issue with the owners, indeed we have huge respect for them. We simply wanted to convey the feelings of the fan base about the current situation on the pitch and who should take responsibility for our failings. We also raised a number of other issues about the disappointing fan experience on matchdays. I have huge trust in all the people who were at that meeting and I have to admit to being seriously pissed off with the negative response of a number of posters to what we were trying to do. Shouting at the internet achieves nothing. Face to face discussion may just achieve something. Please feel free to organise your own meeting and invited a cross section of 8 to 80 year olds to attend. 

[philmpv]

Disagree, under previous regimes this was the right way to go about it as the money was being pocketed by the likes of Smurthwaite.  We now have owners who are not the issue, I will have the occasional moan about them but we all know what the problem is.  He has to be removed from this club and continued protests about him is the only way for him to go.  I dont feel starving the club of finances is the way forward.

You can't just isolate DF in all of this. Who employs DF? Carol. Who hired DF? Carol. Who continues to support DF? Carol. Without Carol, there's no DF. To suggest that he's got her over a barrel, has brainwashed her is both ridiculous and insulting to Carols intelligence.

For the record, I love Carol. We'll NEVER get an owner who genuinely wants the best for the club as she does. I trust her judgement, and don't pretend to know the ins and outs of bringing players in. I swear some of you think it's as easy as saying oh, we want him and they magically arrive and will be guaranteed successes.

DF is really no better or worse in the transfer market than how it worked previously imho. This is my take on the last few years recruitment success to this season ('success' being very generously applied by and large):

PRE DF:

9 - Grimmer, Lines, Dickinson, Griffith - 44%

24 - Veseli, Andoh, Marshall, Streete - 16%

13 - Ikpeazu, Inniss, Alnwick, Streete, Foley - 38%

30 - Jones, Eagles, Bikey - 10%

29 - Worrall, Whitfield, Pope - 10%

22 - Clark, Conlon, Oyeleke, Legge, Joyce, Brown - 27%

16 - Taylor, Amoo, Burgess - 19%

13 - Rodney - 8%

POST DF

23 - Cass, Politic, Harratt, Garrity, Benning, Jones, Pett, Walker, Wilson, Proctor, Hall, Charsley - 52%

15 - Harrison, Butterworth, Ojo, Forrester - 26%

20 - Ripley, Devine, Arblaster, Chislett, Debrah, Sang - 30%

Do any of you actually know what role DC and AC have played in recruitment? Do you really believe that DF signs every player on a whim and does not consult the manager at all?

[Doha]

32 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

It was a selected hand picked compliant audience. 

No, it certainly wasn't. Again, she didn't know who was coming until just before. 

[philmpv]

No, it certainly wasn't. Again, she didn't know who was coming until just before. 

Don't get in the way of a good OVF 'fact' from Dave in the pub

[Wrex]

59 minutes ago, philmpv said:

DF is really no better or worse in the transfer market than how it worked previously imho. This is my take on the last few years recruitment success to this season ('success' being very generously applied by and large):

PRE DF:

9 - Grimmer, Lines, Dickinson, Griffith - 44%

24 - Veseli, Andoh, Marshall, Streete - 16%

13 - Ikpeazu, Inniss, Alnwick, Streete, Foley - 38%

30 - Jones, Eagles, Bikey - 10%

29 - Worrall, Whitfield, Pope - 10%

22 - Clark, Conlon, Oyeleke, Legge, Joyce, Brown - 27%

16 - Taylor, Amoo, Burgess - 19%

13 - Rodney - 8%

POST DF

23 - Cass, Politic, Harratt, Garrity, Benning, Jones, Pett, Walker, Wilson, Proctor, Hall, Charsley - 52%

15 - Harrison, Butterworth, Ojo, Forrester - 26%

20 - Ripley, Devine, Arblaster, Chislett, Debrah, Sang - 30%

What does the percentage mean?

[Hoppers]

5 hours ago, Wrex said:

What does the percentage mean?

I'm glad someone else has asked that - its given me cold sweats usually associated with "Devine Intervention" maths 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[philmpv]

What does the percentage mean?

Simply my own opinion of the percentage success of that season's incomings (the named players). The total incoming is the first number of each line

[PV1973]

9 hours ago, philmpv said:

PRE DF:

9 - Grimmer, Lines, Dickinson, Griffith - 44%

24 - Veseli, Andoh, Marshall, Streete - 16%

13 - Ikpeazu, Inniss, Alnwick, Streete, Foley - 38%

30 - Jones, Eagles, Bikey - 10%

29 - Worrall, Whitfield, Pope - 10%

22 - Clark, Conlon, Oyeleke, Legge, Joyce, Brown - 27%

16 - Taylor, Amoo, Burgess - 19%

13 - Rodney - 8%

POST DF

23 - Cass, Politic, Harratt, Garrity, Benning, Jones, Pett, Walker, Wilson, Proctor, Hall, Charsley - 52%

15 - Harrison, Butterworth, Ojo, Forrester - 26%

20 - Ripley, Devine, Arblaster, Chislett, Debrah, Sang - 30%

 

I had no clue what the numbers at the beginning and end even meant. Still it’s also worth noting that recruiting isn’t just an individual thing. It’s a group of players that you’re assembling. A collective. At the moment we are so far from looking like a team that’s it’s unreal. We’re more like a collective shambles. What flitcroft has done since the promotion season is indefensible

One things for sure. I can see with my own eyes that we’ve built a squad with hardly any goals in it, just looking at individual players stats tells you that. So what were our recruitment team seeing? We’ve decided to play a wingback system and we amazingly have no wingbacks. We have no strikers when we were drastically short of them in January and still are. We’ve tried to go to a back 4 and we have no fullbacks. Also we have that intangible thing of having no characters on the pitch and seemingly no togetherness. We had that in abundance 2 years ago when we went up. It’s been slowly dismantled. 

But overall just look at our performances and league position. We are terrible. There’s no dressing up how bad the recruitment has been since promotion.  We were hearing rumours sneaking out of the club about flitcrofts “negotiation tactics” at the end of the promotion season when players were leaving or offered poor deals. It’s snowballed since then to the position we’re in now where his free rein has seen us have the squad stripped of characters and leaders to become an unbalanced mess with no one who we can feel connected to or invested in. He has to go. No ifs or buts. 

Edited March 11 by PV1973

[Bald Eagle]

52 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

I had no clue what the numbers at the beginning and end even meant. Still it’s also worth noting that recruiting isn’t just an individual thing. It’s a group of players that you’re assembling. A collective. At the moment we are so far from looking like a team that’s it’s unreal. We’re more like a collective shambles. What flitcroft has done since the promotion season is indefensible

One things for sure. I can see with my own eyes that we’ve built a squad with hardly any goals in it, just looking at individual players stats tells you that. So what were our recruitment team seeing? We’ve decided to play a wingback system and we amazingly have no wingbacks. We have no strikers when we were drastically short of them in January and still are. We’ve tried to go to a back 4 and we have no fullbacks. Also we have that intangible thing of having no characters on the pitch and seemingly no togetherness. We had that in abundance 2 years ago when we went up. It’s been slowly dismantled. 

But overall just look at our performances and league position. We are terrible. There’s no dressing up how bad the recruitment has been since promotion.  We were hearing rumours sneaking out of the club about flitcrofts “negotiation tactics” at the end of the promotion season when players were leaving or offered poor deals. It’s snowballed since then to the position we’re in now where his free rein has seen us have the squad striped of characters and leaders to become an unbalanced mess with no one who we can feel connected to or invested in. He has to go. No ifs or buts. 

I think it’s the total number of signings that season?  With the listed names the ones who are deemed to be a success with % overall?

it’s also worth noting that there is considerable extra cost/resource being funded in terms of both DF salary + analysts / researchers to assemble this ‘phenomenal’ bunch.

in the boardroom Carol / Flicker can power point and convince themselves as much as they want as to reasons - distorted market etc, but other clubs have overcome these challenges and you cannot present your way out of the league table which does not lie!
 

Edited March 11 by Bald Eagle

[darren1810]

All open to an individual perception isn't it.

How could Bikey be deemed a success having played just 7 times ? 

And don't start me on Jones and Debrah listed as a ' success ' .

[TJHValiant]

10 hours ago, philmpv said:

You can't just isolate DF in all of this. Who employs DF? Carol. Who hired DF? Carol. Who continues to support DF? Carol. Without Carol, there's no DF. To suggest that he's got her over a barrel, has brainwashed her is both ridiculous and insulting to Carols intelligence.

For the record, I love Carol. We'll NEVER get an owner who genuinely wants the best for the club as she does. I trust her judgement, and don't pretend to know the ins and outs of bringing players in. I swear some of you think it's as easy as saying oh, we want him and they magically arrive and will be guaranteed successes.

DF is really no better or worse in the transfer market than how it worked previously imho. This is my take on the last few years recruitment success to this season ('success' being very generously applied by and large):

PRE DF:

9 - Grimmer, Lines, Dickinson, Griffith - 44%

24 - Veseli, Andoh, Marshall, Streete - 16%

13 - Ikpeazu, Inniss, Alnwick, Streete, Foley - 38%

30 - Jones, Eagles, Bikey - 10%

29 - Worrall, Whitfield, Pope - 10%

22 - Clark, Conlon, Oyeleke, Legge, Joyce, Brown - 27%

16 - Taylor, Amoo, Burgess - 19%

13 - Rodney - 8%

POST DF

23 - Cass, Politic, Harratt, Garrity, Benning, Jones, Pett, Walker, Wilson, Proctor, Hall, Charsley - 52%

15 - Harrison, Butterworth, Ojo, Forrester - 26%

20 - Ripley, Devine, Arblaster, Chislett, Debrah, Sang - 30%

Do any of you actually know what role DC and AC have played in recruitment? Do you really believe that DF signs every player on a whim and does not consult the manager at all?

A lot of players on that list were loans who barely did half a season which highlights the problem. That 30% for Arblaster and Devine can be halved as they are no longer here, left at Christmas. I do think that chart proves that we had great signings at 23, but it has gotten much worse since.