PVFC Meet delegation of fans regarding current concerns

[Houston Valiant]

56 minutes ago, Doha said:

Beden’s probably going to be on a disciplinary on Monday morning for an undeclared second job with how much he’s put into this, he’s shattered. He was the same during NS, the same during Deakin/Miller and the same during V2001. I bumped into him at Wembley after full time and hugged the <ovf censored>, from administration and liquidation threats and nil paid share gate and late night meetings in pubs co-ordinating protest actions and paying for solicitor advice, to the tricky whites hitting the back of the net 5* times in a Wembley final.  He’s just a bloke who sits in the Hamil like so many reading this are. He’s not particularly a fan of the disparity in funding between the executive areas and the regular seating plebs to say the least, so please believe me when I say the claims being made of Carol selecting agitators to manipulate into a fleet of obedient flying monkeys could not be further from the truth. She’d be more successful in trying to get Neil Baldwin to run the team out tomorrow. 
 

* sort of

Good post that. 

[Paul6754]

15 hours ago, Bede said:

I wrote the following account yesterday but decided to sleep on it before posting.  I feel I must now clarify, given the responses since the release of the official statement.

OK, so to first explain how this has come about.  I am the co-founder of the Black & Gold Group, but also current sitting Secretary of the Supporters' Club.  The SC, B&G and NLV have all been interwoven for many years, simply because we are all Vale fans with the same ultimate aims.  We all offer differing viewpoints on things but remain active together to provide a widespread view on situations. B&G have remained active, albeit in the background, for many years, mainly as observers and researchers.  With my SC hat on, we have been increasingly frustrated with everything at the club, same as everyone else.  We therefore requested a committee meeting a couple of months or so ago with the inclusion of Matt Hancock, who has offered himself up to the SC as the conduit between us and the club.  The relationship between SC and club has drifted apart as we feel that the club have not wanted to engage with us, and it seems that they have hijacked events that the SC have traditionally held, on behalf of the fans.  We all feel that the club are trying to control everything.  This meeting was intense.  I'm not slow at coming forward with my views, and neither is Paul Dixon, and Matt got absolute pelters.  To his credit, he took it all very well.  Never argued, never complained, never flounced off or made excuses.  He took it all in.

Following that meeting, Mark Porter, Paul Dixon, and I have remained in constant contact with Matt, intensely pointing out the level of unrest amongst the fanbase.  He could quite easily cease communications with me because I have hardly been complimentary at times, but I have tried to reflect the level of anger, frustration, disappointment, and downright disengagement from the club.  Matt has actively sought to understand all of that.  We then held another meeting with Matt to delve a little deeper into the supporter discontent.  This then led to Matt setting up a meeting with Carol for him relay the mounting concerns to her, with her full attention.  It was then mutually agreed that a meeting should be held between us to face this head on.  During this period, other fans have also been voicing their concerns in their own ways to the club, so we therefore asked them to join in a collaborative effort.

Matt then gave us a list of dates that Carol would be available, and the meeting was set.  At no point were we given a time limit, a limit on numbers of members that could attend, or any actual pre-requisites at all.  All that was asked towards the date looming was a list of names of those attending.  The meeting was initially going to be between us and just Matt Hancock and Carol.  A couple of us then debated the merits of also requesting the attendance of Paddy.  We decided against it, but then as the meeting approached, we were told that Carol would like him to attend.  We ran it by our groups, and it was agreed that he should attend.

So, on Monday evening, we held a meeting between 7pm until just gone 10pm.  The burning topic, of course, was David Flitcroft.  My view remains that I cannot see his position anything other than untenable.  A sentiment held by all of us on our side of the table.  Let's not dress that up any other way. The overwhelming evidence of fans in the ground, fans in the pubs, fans on social media, forums such as this and radio phone-ins, is that very few have remaining faith in our Director of Football.  You must understand that, had we sat down and screamed that Flitcroft is a w***** and he needs to f*** off, a 3-hour meeting would not have lasted 3 minutes.  And we would also be doing a dis-service to the other points that needed addressing.

We went into the meeting well researched, with a formal agenda from which to raise our points.  After lots and lots of debate around the obvious, we then discussed the other topics; those being the communications coming out of the club, the problems with ticketing, the matchday supporter facilities and overall 'experience' and the potential for better fan engagement with the club going forward.  The club seemed surprised at some of the issues raised.  They did admit failings in communication, they also saw a different viewpoint on the other topics that they had not considered.  Above all else, they appeared genuinely shocked and saddened at what we were telling them, in terms of the overall disconnect between fans and club.

Now, we all know that admitting failure, and expressing shock and sadness at things is all well and good, but they need to let their actions do the talking.  We hope that they now understand that loud and clear.  It's over to them to deliver results.

So please let me make it abundantly clear.  We recognise that fans are not happy.  This season, we have seen fans fighting amongst themselves in the stands.  We have seen much anger directed at Flitcroft, at our players for abject performances.  We have seen growing complaints against the disparity of ground improvements.  We have an utterly unworkable relationship between the Supporters' Club and the club.  We have seen an alarming lack of respect shown to us fans by the club, not least by way of Carol's letter, David Flitcroft's Podcast, and the ignorance displayed towards our concerns at the last fans' forum.

We are taking those issues to the club because they all need to be fixed.  Do not think for one moment that we are easily pacified.  But we must be logical.  We cannot just rock up with a list of demands.  There will have to be compromise and understanding from both sides.  The first step in that healing process is to meet and hit the problems head on.  Monday's meeting was exactly that.  We don't have any answers, or results to report back on, from one solitary, intense meeting.  But it is the start of some much needed honest and frank dialogue.  How this pans out is yet to be decided. 

We've been in much worse states.  We have battled to remove two rogue owners in the last 13 or so years.  These owners are not rogue.  But it's fair to say they have misaligned their focus.  Please support us in regaining that.  And please understand our respect for the Shanahan family, despite all our current differences.

We've hopefully now opened doors and we look forward to the club holding much more open dialogue with the wider fanbase.

Bede, What is planned by the SC, B&G and NLV if Flitcroft isn't removed in a timely fashion?

I am in no way defending Flitcroft but there may be other reasons why recruitment has been poor that are beyond his control, eg money, pay structure and ceilings etc. If the latter are the case I would hope the club would come out and communicate the reasons in some way.

[Bede]

3 hours ago, Doha said:

Beden’s probably going to be on a disciplinary on Monday morning for an undeclared second job with how much he’s put into this, he’s shattered. He was the same during NS, the same during Deakin/Miller and the same during V2001. I bumped into him at Wembley after full time and hugged the <ovf censored>, from administration and liquidation threats and nil paid share gate and late night meetings in pubs co-ordinating protest actions and paying for solicitor advice, to the tricky whites hitting the back of the net 5* times in a Wembley final.  He’s just a bloke who sits in the Hamil like so many reading this are. He’s not particularly a fan of the disparity in funding between the executive areas and the regular seating plebs to say the least, so please believe me when I say the claims being made of Carol selecting agitators to manipulate into a fleet of obedient flying monkeys could not be further from the truth. She’d be more successful in trying to get Neil Baldwin to run the team out tomorrow. 
 

* sort of

Thanks Doha. I have to stress though that there is a network of damn fine people behind all of this that give so much to make it all happen. 

Neil Baldwin is my father’s cousin by the way, so I’ll give him a ring to see if he fancies it!

[PVFC764]

2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Bede, What is planned by the SC, B&G and NLV if Flitcroft isn't removed in a timely fashion?

I am in no way defending Flitcroft but there may be other reasons why recruitment has been poor that are beyond his control, eg money, pay structure and ceilings etc. If the latter are the case I would hope the club would come out and communicate the reasons in some way.

With Fraudcroft at the helm of all football on the pitch, I can see another season of poor recruitment and a relegation battle.  Still no strikers and the same reasons used for previous windows.  Supporters we were sooooooooooo close to signing the player but he went to another club.  Oh by the way we didn't have a back up plan.  But there will always be another window and we don't need strikers as we have done so well the previous seasons and we are Championship Ready Club.

 

[Bede]

2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Bede, What is planned by the SC, B&G and NLV if Flitcroft isn't removed in a timely fashion?

I am in no way defending Flitcroft but there may be other reasons why recruitment has been poor that are beyond his control, eg money, pay structure and ceilings etc. If the latter are the case I would hope the club would come out and communicate the reasons in some way.

Well I'm a Shotgun and Firearms licence holder, I know a bloke who owns a tank, I have a mate that is very high up now in the army and has spent the last few years travelling the world training snipers and infantry units in various types of warfare, and my grandson also has a new sword from yesterday's world book day costume.  So we're pretty well set for a war.

In all seriousness, it is our complete aim to resolve things amicably.  If that doesn't happen, then it's down to the will of the people.  It's not for me, or any of us, to spoon-feed you what to think.  As in the past, we will harness whatever the fans' feelings are and act accordingly.  How that looks right now we simply cannot say.

[Properman]

What I do not get is Flitcroft saying he was so close to getting people in , but because of whatever the club where the player was  could not let the player go. That is where he failed things should have been lined up in December, so we had them the start of January. If we could not get the said player/players go after another choice. Not wait untill the last few hours of the window.

[TonyD]

I dont have much to add that Bede and Mellor haven't already said however I would like to say something about my own experience of Monday and the few days since.

I am as guilty as anybody of bashing out my opinion on the Internet without any regard for the people I am talking about.  Many people give the impression that they would love to have the opportunity to "put the owners right" on a few things.

It was not pleasant seeing first hand just how much the situation is affecting Carol.  I think we all forget sometimes that the people we lambast are just that, people.  We often think its OK to scream all sorts of things into the Internet but it really isn't.  

I have had a very strange week, where I have seen people take a statement and add their own conotations to it and talk about them like they are fact.  I have seen the absolute worst of people on all SM platforms, screaming all sorts of made up theories into the ether. 

I understand the clamour for detail and there was alot of debate behind the scenes over what, if anything we should say further.  We have been under alot of pressure to get this right.

One part of the official joint statement that seemed to attract alot of critism was the part about urging fans to put aside frustration to help give the players and management a boost.  I will hold my hands up and say that I wrote that part and not the club.  It was never meant to insinuate that fans hadn't been supportive and was only intended as it was written.  It was simply asking people to but it on the back burner to deal with later whilst we try to slavage league one status.  I felt that there was pertinence in acknowledging we are in a relegation battle and also in acknowledging there is fan frustration.  I got that wrong, so please don't bash the club for my misjudgement.

Some of the critism we faced was too much.

As I have said, I have been massively guilty of this myself and after this week, I must be better in future because I now know first hand that things we say on the Internet do effect people personally.

Meeting Carol under these circumstances has reassured me that the whole family are absolutely the right people to look after the best interests of the club.  I have not changed my mind about David Flitcroft, I am still of the opinion that he cannot come back from this.

I wanted to just calrify and apologise for my part in the statement and also to appeal to people to think a bit more before they sit at a keyboard.

I can't see how we stay up but one thing I will say from Monday is that Carol and Paddy have an absolute belief in Darren Moore, so until the fat lady sings, I'll be crossing my fingers that we are still a league one side next season.

I would say, let's get behind them on Saturday and see if we can't get 3 points to put us back in the race...  but perhaps not.

 

[Jacko51]

Excellent post Tony and I concur with every word.  

[darren1810]

22 minutes ago, TonyD said:

I dont have much to add that Bede and Mellor haven't already said however I would like to say something about my own experience of Monday and the few days since.

I am as guilty as anybody of bashing out my opinion on the Internet without any regard for the people I am talking about.  Many people give the impression that they would love to have the opportunity to "put the owners right" on a few things.

It was not pleasant seeing first hand just how much the situation is affecting Carol.  I think we all forget sometimes that the people we lambast are just that, people.  We often think its OK to scream all sorts of things into the Internet but it really isn't.  

I have had a very strange week, where I have seen people take a statement and add their own conotations to it and talk about them like they are fact.  I have seen the absolute worst of people on all SM platforms, screaming all sorts of made up theories into the ether. 

I understand the clamour for detail and there was alot of debate behind the scenes over what, if anything we should say further.  We have been under alot of pressure to get this right.

One part of the official joint statement that seemed to attract alot of critism was the part about urging fans to put aside frustration to help give the players and management a boost.  I will hold my hands up and say that I wrote that part and not the club.  It was never meant to insinuate that fans hadn't been supportive and was only intended as it was written.  It was simply asking people to but it on the back burner to deal with later whilst we try to slavage league one status.  I felt that there was pertinence in acknowledging we are in a relegation battle and also in acknowledging there is fan frustration.  I got that wrong, so please don't bash the club for my misjudgement.

Some of the critism we faced was too much.

As I have said, I have been massively guilty of this myself and after this week, I must be better in future because I now know first hand that things we say on the Internet do effect people personally.

Meeting Carol under these circumstances has reassured me that the whole family are absolutely the right people to look after the best interests of the club.  I have not changed my mind about David Flitcroft, I am still of the opinion that he cannot come back from this.

I wanted to just calrify and apologise for my part in the statement and also to appeal to people to think a bit more before they sit at a keyboard.

I can't see how we stay up but one thing I will say from Monday is that Carol and Paddy have an absolute belief in Darren Moore, so until the fat lady sings, I'll be crossing my fingers that we are still a league one side next season.

I would say, let's get behind them on Saturday and see if we can't get 3 points to put us back in the race...  but perhaps not.

 

No necessity for any apology at all. Just doing your best for everyone and giving up your own valuable time.

A well written post.

[Guitar Ray]

37 minutes ago, TonyD said:

I dont have much to add that Bede and Mellor haven't already said however I would like to say something about my own experience of Monday and the few days since.

I am as guilty as anybody of bashing out my opinion on the Internet without any regard for the people I am talking about.  Many people give the impression that they would love to have the opportunity to "put the owners right" on a few things.

It was not pleasant seeing first hand just how much the situation is affecting Carol.  I think we all forget sometimes that the people we lambast are just that, people.  We often think its OK to scream all sorts of things into the Internet but it really isn't.  

I have had a very strange week, where I have seen people take a statement and add their own conotations to it and talk about them like they are fact.  I have seen the absolute worst of people on all SM platforms, screaming all sorts of made up theories into the ether. 

I understand the clamour for detail and there was alot of debate behind the scenes over what, if anything we should say further.  We have been under alot of pressure to get this right.

One part of the official joint statement that seemed to attract alot of critism was the part about urging fans to put aside frustration to help give the players and management a boost.  I will hold my hands up and say that I wrote that part and not the club.  It was never meant to insinuate that fans hadn't been supportive and was only intended as it was written.  It was simply asking people to but it on the back burner to deal with later whilst we try to slavage league one status.  I felt that there was pertinence in acknowledging we are in a relegation battle and also in acknowledging there is fan frustration.  I got that wrong, so please don't bash the club for my misjudgement.

Some of the critism we faced was too much.

As I have said, I have been massively guilty of this myself and after this week, I must be better in future because I now know first hand that things we say on the Internet do effect people personally.

Meeting Carol under these circumstances has reassured me that the whole family are absolutely the right people to look after the best interests of the club.  I have not changed my mind about David Flitcroft, I am still of the opinion that he cannot come back from this.

I wanted to just calrify and apologise for my part in the statement and also to appeal to people to think a bit more before they sit at a keyboard.

I can't see how we stay up but one thing I will say from Monday is that Carol and Paddy have an absolute belief in Darren Moore, so until the fat lady sings, I'll be crossing my fingers that we are still a league one side next season.

I would say, let's get behind them on Saturday and see if we can't get 3 points to put us back in the race...  but perhaps not.

 

The best post I’ve read in this topic for sure.  The recent messages put out by Carol herself, the club and the various fans groups are appeals for unity, the rest of it is background right now.  Fans need to put all their efforts into supporting the team in an effort to maintain our League 1 status.  There’s plenty of time for any inquest can begin afterwards.

[Sandyford_Lion]

Tony. What a post.

Together with this , Bede, Mellor and co. its time we all accepted the meaning of the meeting.

No one can honestly expect a sacking the following morning but that is exactly what people expect to see. Hopefully follow ups to continue and this is what should happen at the Vale. Then we can see if there is any benefits to both the club and fans, on and off the pitch.

All us fans wanted was to be kept informed and not keep hearing bits sneaking out from people who were also not present at the meeting.

Anyway.

Now that i have read your post and your humble reply to what you say was your initial thoughts and what your comments would have been had you been sat on the keyboard, I cannot wait for your post re : your comments to referees and officials over the last fifty years !!!

We sometimes forget that referees are people, hard to believe i know, but people they are, as you know from your stint in the middle. Found this quite amusing to be honest aswell as a terrific post from a true Vale fan.

[Birches Head Fred]

It may well be that DF's hands were tied for various financial reasons, wage structure, signing on fees, agents fees etc.
That, along with actually getting players interested in joining Vale and moving to this area could well be stumbling blocks for many a signing.
I'm not trying to defend DF but we are all pretty guilty of "assuming" and yes, the last 3 transfer windows go a long way to adding to what we percive to be failure on his part.
Maybe now that Carol and the top brass are possibly looking at things from a different perspective as discussed at the meeting, aligned with perhaps new investment and the new managers wishes, DF may find another role within the club, or have a better base to work from when trying to attract players - Carol obviously sets a great deal of store with DF and maybe he's not entirely to blame.
Let's hope that whether or not DF is involved in recruitment going forward to next season, its for League One players we are chasing.
UTV

[Rory]

2 hours ago, TonyD said:

I dont have much to add that Bede and Mellor haven't already said however I would like to say something about my own experience of Monday and the few days since.

I am as guilty as anybody of bashing out my opinion on the Internet without any regard for the people I am talking about.  Many people give the impression that they would love to have the opportunity to "put the owners right" on a few things.

It was not pleasant seeing first hand just how much the situation is affecting Carol.  I think we all forget sometimes that the people we lambast are just that, people.  We often think its OK to scream all sorts of things into the Internet but it really isn't.  

I have had a very strange week, where I have seen people take a statement and add their own conotations to it and talk about them like they are fact.  I have seen the absolute worst of people on all SM platforms, screaming all sorts of made up theories into the ether. 

I understand the clamour for detail and there was alot of debate behind the scenes over what, if anything we should say further.  We have been under alot of pressure to get this right.

One part of the official joint statement that seemed to attract alot of critism was the part about urging fans to put aside frustration to help give the players and management a boost.  I will hold my hands up and say that I wrote that part and not the club.  It was never meant to insinuate that fans hadn't been supportive and was only intended as it was written.  It was simply asking people to but it on the back burner to deal with later whilst we try to slavage league one status.  I felt that there was pertinence in acknowledging we are in a relegation battle and also in acknowledging there is fan frustration.  I got that wrong, so please don't bash the club for my misjudgement.

Some of the critism we faced was too much.

As I have said, I have been massively guilty of this myself and after this week, I must be better in future because I now know first hand that things we say on the Internet do effect people personally.

Meeting Carol under these circumstances has reassured me that the whole family are absolutely the right people to look after the best interests of the club.  I have not changed my mind about David Flitcroft, I am still of the opinion that he cannot come back from this.

I wanted to just calrify and apologise for my part in the statement and also to appeal to people to think a bit more before they sit at a keyboard.

I can't see how we stay up but one thing I will say from Monday is that Carol and Paddy have an absolute belief in Darren Moore, so until the fat lady sings, I'll be crossing my fingers that we are still a league one side next season.

I would say, let's get behind them on Saturday and see if we can't get 3 points to put us back in the race...  but perhaps not.

 

Super Tony!

[Rockape99]

7 hours ago, Bede said:

Well I'm a Shotgun and Firearms licence holder, I know a bloke who owns a tank, I have a mate that is very high up now in the army and has spent the last few years travelling the world training snipers and infantry units in various types of warfare, and my grandson also has a new sword from yesterday's world book day costume.  So we're pretty well set for a war.

In all seriousness, it is our complete aim to resolve things amicably.  If that doesn't happen, then it's down to the will of the people.  It's not for me, or any of us, to spoon-feed you what to think.  As in the past, we will harness whatever the fans' feelings are and act accordingly.  How that looks right now we simply cannot say.

Submariner here I would offer to target DF but I’m afraid our nukes aren’t that effective anymore 

Edited March 8 by Rockape99
Spelling

[mbycars]

4 hours ago, TonyD said:

I dont have much to add that Bede and Mellor haven't already said however I would like to say something about my own experience of Monday and the few days since.

I am as guilty as anybody of bashing out my opinion on the Internet without any regard for the people I am talking about.  Many people give the impression that they would love to have the opportunity to "put the owners right" on a few things.

It was not pleasant seeing first hand just how much the situation is affecting Carol.  I think we all forget sometimes that the people we lambast are just that, people.  We often think its OK to scream all sorts of things into the Internet but it really isn't.  

I have had a very strange week, where I have seen people take a statement and add their own conotations to it and talk about them like they are fact.  I have seen the absolute worst of people on all SM platforms, screaming all sorts of made up theories into the ether. 

I understand the clamour for detail and there was alot of debate behind the scenes over what, if anything we should say further.  We have been under alot of pressure to get this right.

One part of the official joint statement that seemed to attract alot of critism was the part about urging fans to put aside frustration to help give the players and management a boost.  I will hold my hands up and say that I wrote that part and not the club.  It was never meant to insinuate that fans hadn't been supportive and was only intended as it was written.  It was simply asking people to but it on the back burner to deal with later whilst we try to slavage league one status.  I felt that there was pertinence in acknowledging we are in a relegation battle and also in acknowledging there is fan frustration.  I got that wrong, so please don't bash the club for my misjudgement.

Some of the critism we faced was too much.

As I have said, I have been massively guilty of this myself and after this week, I must be better in future because I now know first hand that things we say on the Internet do effect people personally.

Meeting Carol under these circumstances has reassured me that the whole family are absolutely the right people to look after the best interests of the club.  I have not changed my mind about David Flitcroft, I am still of the opinion that he cannot come back from this.

I wanted to just calrify and apologise for my part in the statement and also to appeal to people to think a bit more before they sit at a keyboard.

I can't see how we stay up but one thing I will say from Monday is that Carol and Paddy have an absolute belief in Darren Moore, so until the fat lady sings, I'll be crossing my fingers that we are still a league one side next season.

I would say, let's get behind them on Saturday and see if we can't get 3 points to put us back in the race...  but perhaps not.

 

Absolutely spot on. Too many people spill their bile on social media platforms without really thinking about the consequences, mostly with very little background knowledge of what they are talking about. Its not acceptable that people are abused like this. Carol is a good person and Port Vale has been a huge project for her. Has she made mistakes, yes she has and has admitted as such, but she doesn't deserve some of the comments I have heard about her on social media platforms. This week I have heard some awful comments about our supporter representatives who attended the meeting. All these guys, Bede, Mark, Paul and all the other supporters there work extremely hard for their groups and for the club. All genuine guys who all have the same concerns as the rest of us. All the same they were derided by a section of fans on message boards without waiting to find out the facts.  It does make me cringe sometimes but i am grateful we have these kind of people in place. As always UTV.

Edited March 8 by mbycars