Creative Thinking

[Trumpingtonvale]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Bycars loses its ‘Good Availability’ tag for the Plymouth game, whatever the situation for the Pilgrims.  Nostalgic home fans might see this as their last opportunity to watch the Vale from a stand that has been considered the ‘home end’  for the 70+ years the ground has existed.  Must admit while writing this I’m actually considering having one last hurrah in there myself having spent my formative Vale fan years standing on its terraces.

[Family Stand Terrier]

5 minutes ago, Trumpingtonvale said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Bycars loses its ‘Good Availability’ tag for the Plymouth game, whatever the situation for the Pilgrims.  Nostalgic home fans might see this as their last opportunity to watch the Vale from a stand that has been considered the ‘home end’  for the 70+ years the ground has existed.  Must admit while writing this I’m actually considering having one last hurrah in there myself having spent my formative Vale fan years standing on its terraces.

Think I might too

[bycars rob]

On 08/02/2023 at 09:12, Brian Johnson said:

 

 

8 hours ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

Yes we went on Brighton's pitch, and they did get promoted at ours around 2001 I think. That's partly why I raise it, they tried to get on our pitch that day but Vale went on first and the police stopped Brighton getting on. A lad I used to go school with ended up doing a few weeks in prison for pulling a moony at the Brighton fans.

Probably best if he didn`t try that in the nick! 

[Essex Vale]

I like rational thinking. In 1997 our last home game of the season was at home to Wolves.  Both team were vying for the play offs.  Vale gave the Hamil to Wolves, but also the whole of the Bycars.  It was a disaster,  hardly any Wolves fans took up the offer and the Bycars fans displaced are still complaining about it now. Wolves are much closer than Plymouth. So the precedent is not good. If fans did not travel from Wolves why would they travel in such numbers from Plymouth.

I think that making different arrangements that are completely contrary to normal operating procedure is confusing to fans, and will require significantly additional policing to ensure safety as well as a whole review of the management of the fan zone, parking, segregation and dispersal after the game.

That is the King's coronation weekend with a huge number of events on over the weekend, which is followed by an extra bank holiday.  Pubs are all allowed to open later, a number of community events are planned.  The demand on Police resources over that whole weekend will be significant.  Do we really think that the Police and safety committee would agree to such a request?  The only justification will be in order to increase Port Vale's income stream.

The plan has only one benefit for Port Vale, more money, at a cost of significant disruption to home fans, with a huge increase in policing costs, but no guarantee that the extra income will be sufficient to make it worthwhile.  The arrangements needed to be confirmed now, and who knows what will happen on the football field between now and then. It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that, like the Wolves experiment, it will be disastrous for the club's reputation and bank balance.

As I said I like creative thinking, well done for going there.  In reality, it is a non starter for all the reasons I outlined, plus some more I didn't think about.

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, Essex Vale said:

I like rational thinking. In 1997 our last home game of the season was at home to Wolves.  Both team were vying for the play offs.  Vale gave the Hamil to Wolves, but also the whole of the Bycars.  It was a disaster,  hardly any Wolves fans took up the offer and the Bycars fans displaced are still complaining about it now. Wolves are much closer than Plymouth. So the precedent is not good. If fans did not travel from Wolves why would they travel in such numbers from Plymouth.

I think that making different arrangements that are completely contrary to normal operating procedure is confusing to fans, and will require significantly additional policing to ensure safety as well as a whole review of the management of the fan zone, parking, segregation and dispersal after the game.

That is the King's coronation weekend with a huge number of events on over the weekend, which is followed by an extra bank holiday.  Pubs are all allowed to open later, a number of community events are planned.  The demand on Police resources over that whole weekend will be significant.  Do we really think that the Police and safety committee would agree to such a request?  The only justification will be in order to increase Port Vale's income stream.

The plan has only one benefit for Port Vale, more money, at a cost of significant disruption to home fans, with a huge increase in policing costs, but no guarantee that the extra income will be sufficient to make it worthwhile.  The arrangements needed to be confirmed now, and who knows what will happen on the football field between now and then. It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that, like the Wolves experiment, it will be disastrous for the club's reputation and bank balance.

As I said I like creative thinking, well done for going there.  In reality, it is a non starter for all the reasons I outlined, plus some more I didn't think about.

Surely it benefits all Vale fans if the income stream is increased

[Port Vale Paul]

13 hours ago, valefan16 said:

It’s hard to say as may be already up or in the play offs, plus if anything on it I expect it will be on TV which may put a fair few of theirs travelling.

Also have the issue of capacity for home fans if limited. We have 6500 season tickets with juniors don’t we? But with a limited capacity in the stands we may struggle to accommodate our own ticket sales. (Bear in mind the Lorne St and Railway Paddock and Stand have sold out a few times and decent weather and the final game may see a few more in, especially as it’s now a Bank Holiday weekend with the Coronation.

In an ideal world the Lorne Street would be complete and you could have given them the new half of that to add to their away demand.

Got to say though 4000 is a decent allocation, not many offer that in the first place, look at our situation at Exeter for instance last season which could of been a promotion decider, and even though we had an extra stand at Wycombe in 2013 it was still less than we give as standard.

Think I read recently re the proposed move that only 300 ST holders in Bycars currently + the couple of others that sit in there. So only 302 to fit in else where 🙈

[Essex Vale]

10 minutes ago, Brian said:

Surely it benefits all Vale fans if the income stream is increased

My post uses the Wolves game as a precedent.  The increased policing and security costs were not covered by the level of attendance.  I gave good reasons why it cannot be guaranteed that the increased income will be sufficient to reward the risk of trying to switch the Plymouth game.   The key word in your statement is IF, my post makes it clear that it is not certain that the income stream will be increased.

Also, I gave good reasons why the Police will be unlikely to agree to such a request because it will put a severe strain on their resources during one of the biggest public holiday weekends that this country has seen for 70 years,

Given all the  difficulties involved,  with no guarantee of such a sufficiently large additional income as an incentive, I believe it is a non starter.

[Brian Johnson]

36 minutes ago, Essex Vale said:

I like rational thinking. In 1997 our last home game of the season was at home to Wolves.  Both team were vying for the play offs.  Vale gave the Hamil to Wolves, but also the whole of the Bycars.  It was a disaster,  hardly any Wolves fans took up the offer and the Bycars fans displaced are still complaining about it now. Wolves are much closer than Plymouth. So the precedent is not good. If fans did not travel from Wolves why would they travel in such numbers from Plymouth.

I think that making different arrangements that are completely contrary to normal operating procedure is confusing to fans, and will require significantly additional policing to ensure safety as well as a whole review of the management of the fan zone, parking, segregation and dispersal after the game.

That is the King's coronation weekend with a huge number of events on over the weekend, which is followed by an extra bank holiday.  Pubs are all allowed to open later, a number of community events are planned.  The demand on Police resources over that whole weekend will be significant.  Do we really think that the Police and safety committee would agree to such a request?  The only justification will be in order to increase Port Vale's income stream.

The plan has only one benefit for Port Vale, more money, at a cost of significant disruption to home fans, with a huge increase in policing costs, but no guarantee that the extra income will be sufficient to make it worthwhile.  The arrangements needed to be confirmed now, and who knows what will happen on the football field between now and then. It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that, like the Wolves experiment, it will be disastrous for the club's reputation and bank balance.

As I said I like creative thinking, well done for going there.  In reality, it is a non starter for all the reasons I outlined, plus some more I didn't think about.

Its a different world to when it was back when we played Wolves.

Modern technology means the club can plan much better for the Plymouth game than we could for the Wolves game 26 years ago.

Where Wolves fans would have had to go the Wolves stadium to purchase tickets, obviously Plymouth fans would purchase tickets online thus enabling the club's to keep more of a control  on what tickets are being sold.

If it benefits Port Vale quite considerably moneywise, then surely there is harm in looking at giving Plymouth both ends?

Surely, we can give them the full capacity to the Hamil and if that outstrips demand, then give them the Bycars.

This would not have to be done to around 3 to 4  weeks before the game takes place.

We can easily accommodate the 300 odd season ticket holders in other parts of the ground

[Santa]

1 hour ago, Essex Vale said:

I like rational thinking. In 1997 our last home game of the season was at home to Wolves.  Both team were vying for the play offs.  Vale gave the Hamil to Wolves, but also the whole of the Bycars.  It was a disaster,  hardly any Wolves fans took up the offer

It was 2000. Vale were long since relegated. Wolves potentially could have made the play offs but lost a crucial game the week before, after the decision had been made to give them the Bycars.

in the end it was a dead rubber. I don’t think too many people (other than a certain hairy local author) cared; they were just relieved the season had ended. 

[Essex Vale]

17 minutes ago, Santa said:

It was 2000. Vale were long since relegated. Wolves potentially could have made the play offs but lost a crucial game the week before, after the decision had been made to give them the Bycars.

in the end it was a dead rubber. I don’t think too many people (other than a certain hairy local author) cared; they were just relieved the season had ended. 

Sorry Sir, you are talking about an event completely unrelated. I am talking about 1997 and the highest post war finish by any Port Vale team.  We went into that game in line for play offs to get into the Premier League.

[Howjy04]

Finish the Lorne Street.Plymouth would be paying a chunk.

[Essex Vale]

44 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

Its a different world to when it was back when we played Wolves.

Modern technology means the club can plan much better for the Plymouth game than we could for the Wolves game 26 years ago.

Where Wolves fans would have had to go the Wolves stadium to purchase tickets, obviously Plymouth fans would purchase tickets online thus enabling the club's to keep more of a control  on what tickets are being sold.

If it benefits Port Vale quite considerably moneywise, then surely there is harm in looking at giving Plymouth both ends?

Surely, we can give them the full capacity to the Hamil and if that outstrips demand, then give them the Bycars.

This would not have to be done to around 3 to 4  weeks before the game takes place.

We can easily accommodate the 300 odd season ticket holders in other parts of the ground

The logistics around selling tickets is not an issue. I don't disagree with your comments about the act of selling tickets.  My other points highlight why I believe this will not happen.

[Guppys left peg]

13 minutes ago, Essex Vale said:

Sorry Sir, you are talking about an event completely unrelated. I am talking about 1997 and the highest post war finish by any Port Vale team.  We went into that game in line for play offs to get into the Premier League.

For that game in 1997 we definitely had the Bycars. What we might have done but can’t remember now is give them the Hamil side of the Lorne Street as that was still open then which we tended to do for Wolves and Stoke.

[Jacko51]

If you give both ends to Plymouth that leaves the Lorne Street, Railway Paddock and Stand for home fans.  The current allowed capacity for those areas is 6,679 in total.  If we give Plymouth the 4,500 in the Hamil I suspect that is more than they've had for any away game this season.  

[jjvale_03]

35 minutes ago, Essex Vale said:

Sorry Sir, you are talking about an event completely unrelated. I am talking about 1997 and the highest post war finish by any Port Vale team.  We went into that game in line for play offs to get into the Premier League.

We did not give the Bycars to Wolves in 1997.

The only time that happened was the final game of 99/00 - when we'd already been relegated.

I remember Stoke, Everton and (possibly Wolves) in the Hamil side of the LS as an 'overspill' for their big away followings, but never the Bycars.