Transfer Rumours Pre-Season

[JRC]

12 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

First rumour of the summer.

Leo Smith, 22yr old, Scott Burgess style midfielder.

He was at Wrexham and made some appearances as a 17-18 yr old.

moved on to Caernarfon in the welsh league. They seem to like him a lot.

Probably a rehash of a story from November, when we were among a number of clubs who allegedly went to watch him. The standout player of his type in the Welsh Leagues last season BUT let go by Wrexham. Got into the Wrexham team quite young but failed to progress. Possibly not helped by Wrexham not having a reserve side. Plays 10, either wing or midfield. If there is anything in it more likely he'd be invited to train preseason with a view to some kind of Alex Hurst type deal. Maybe train with us and play for Caernarfon until Christmas.

[TheSage]

I'm not saying that it isn't pragmatic to look at players like these. Askey probably knows the non league scene as well as anyone.

But, for me, if we can get most of our existing squad signed up then what we really need are 2-3 good quality players at this level who can go straight into the first team squad and play their part. 

I'd rather we signed 2-3 of that ilk than 7-8 young chancers.

Tracking both options is sensible, of course it is. Plan for the future. But as we've commented before for the past 4-5 pre-seasons, we need proven quality over quantity. We've got the skeleton of a solid team and just need a bit more quality in 2-3 areas.

We need to try and maximise what we've got next year because the likes of Legge and Pope - key players for us - are not going to be around forever.

But who knows if/when the new campaign might start and what will be the state of lower league clubs' finances. A lot of it is still up in the air.

[Iron Curtain]

If you believe the rumours, our welsh scout has been busy!

 

[robf]

20 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

If you believe the rumours, our welsh scout has been busy!

 

Hmm, we did alright the last time we signed a prolific non-league striker from Wales...

[robf]

46 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I'm not saying that it isn't pragmatic to look at players like these. Askey probably knows the non league scene as well as anyone.

But, for me, if we can get most of our existing squad signed up then what we really need are 2-3 good quality players at this level who can go straight into the first team squad and play their part. 

I'd rather we signed 2-3 of that ilk than 7-8 young chancers.

Tracking both options is sensible, of course it is. Plan for the future. But as we've commented before for the past 4-5 pre-seasons, we need proven quality over quantity. We've got the skeleton of a solid team and just need a bit more quality in 2-3 areas.

We need to try and maximise what we've got next year because the likes of Legge and Pope - key players for us - are not going to be around forever.

But who knows if/when the new campaign might start and what will be the state of lower league clubs' finances. A lot of it is still up in the air.

I guess finances will prove key. If we are struggling like other clubs then proven players may be beyond the budget and cheaper non-league ones more practical. Or as you say there could be an element of looking for both experienced players and inexperienced potentials. 

[Valiant in Brum]

I guess finances will prove key. If we are struggling like other clubs then proven players may be beyond the budget and cheaper non-league ones more practical. Or as you say there could be an element of looking for both experienced players and inexperienced potentials. 

The thing is though those proven League Two players may not be able to afford to be overally picky in these circumstances. We may be able pick up one or two.

 

[Iron Curtain]

In Askey we trust

[darren1810]

2 hours ago, Gallifreyan Valiant said:

The thing is though those proven League Two players may not be able to afford to be overally picky in these circumstances. We may be able pick up one or two.

 

Very good point. Players surely have got to lower their sights now and be grateful that they are getting paid for something they love doing. Hopefully JA has irons in the fire.

The Welsh lads are going to be similar to Angus and Warburton who went to Northampton after scoring shed loads in National League North. A gamble that may or may not pay off.

Wouldn't it be amazing if there was another Andy Jones or Ian Taylor out there putting pen to paper. 

[JRC]

Clubs of Vale's size only really enjoy spells of sustained success by buying cheap from the leagues below and selling on high. Askey pretty much said the same thing when he recruited Hurst. Not looking at players of this ilk would be as wrong as actually recruiting half a dozen. 

Last season we had one of the smallest squads in League 2, which have got much bigger over the last 10 years with the limit on loan windows and increases in subs. We used 28 players but the vast majority of games were played by a core of 18. With the non-league loan terms being less restrictive it's pretty easy to get these players out for experience and bring them back to cover for injuries. I don't have a problem with 2 or 3 players like this in a squad because:

They are cheap

2 or 3 players are only likely to make 4 or 5 sub appearances and have a run out in the football league trophy

Strengthening the core of 18 is the obvious priority if we are to make the next step and I am sure will be Askey's priority. Outside that a couple of judicious punts aren't a serious concern. Looking at clubs which have collected large squads of decent proven players (eg Notts County, Mansfield) there becomes a danger of too much chopping and changing along with dressing room discontent with too many dissatisfied experienced pros not getting game time.

[Joe B]

The likes of Atkinson, Evans, and Lloyd will have to be replaced.  Obviously we need 2-3 first 11 improvements but every promotion-winning squad needs versatile players, good hard-working characters who will keep standards high and push the first-team players, and will be satisfied with a year of pay and some chances in the cups/injury crises without kicking up a fuss and disrupting the harmony.

If you can get them cheaper/of a higher quality than what we've released, or have them fulfill that role whilst retaining some future potential, then it makes sense.

Just important to remember not every signing we make is going to be an immediate starter; squad-building is crucial. 

[dishydave]

With our good academy lads being poached by the premier clubs at an early age. Signing a couple of young non league lads might be the only way we can develop players in the future. If we just find one a season like burgess this year it wont be a bad thing. I cant see us singing any big wage players until we know what's happening with next season

[JRC]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

The likes of Atkinson, Evans, and Lloyd will have to be replaced.  Obviously we need 2-3 first 11 improvements but every promotion-winning squad needs versatile players, good hard-working characters who will keep standards high and push the first-team players, and will be satisfied with a year of pay and some chances in the cups/injury crises without kicking up a fuss and disrupting the harmony.

If you can get them cheaper/of a higher quality than what we've released, or have them fulfill that role whilst retaining some future potential, then it makes sense.

Just important to remember not every signing we make is going to be an immediate starter; squad-building is crucial. 

I think your last point is important. We will need a squad of approximately 24 and players will know that certain players in out current squad are likely starters early next season. Part of recruitment is convincing players they are firmly in the managers planning for the first team. You aren't going to convince all 24 players of that and a lot of wages are made up of appearance and first-team bonuses. Aspin was interested in Jordan Cranston and Harry Smith who both signed for smaller clubs to get regular games rather than being bench warmers at Vale. Morecombe and Macclesfield, who are among the lower paying clubs. In both cases I suspect it was being convinced they were in the manager's first 11 plans rather than cash that made the difference. Any player with 100 plus league games would have to think very hard about coming in as a 6th choice midfield player, or have exhausted all other options if they were in their prime years.  

Aspin has made it clear he's in the market for 2 strikers. With Cullen, Pope and ideally real quality striker as a no 1 or 2 target for the summer it is going to be very difficult to attract an experienced 4th striker. I also suspect Cullen is looking to resign partly because he feels he is now ahead of Pope in the managers thoughts for a starting role; as he did well enough in the second half of the season without getting injured to have interest elsewhere when the football restarts.  I don't see Cullen as the type of player or person who would stick around for another year as, potentially, 3rd or 4th choice in a one man forward line and he will have had conversations with Askey about this before he got to the point of intending to sign a contract.

He needs rightback cover but with Gibbons a guaranteed start its going to be difficult to get another in of a similar quality. If Smith signs we have 3 very good centrehalves and we are well stocked in central midfield if Conlon signs; although probably room for a 5th one to be guaranteed a reasonable amount of game time. I suspect letting Atkinson go may have partly been related to him wanting more game time at his point in his career and knowing he was some way behind other players in any of his positions. He did a good pro job for us in a number of roles but probably realised he was some way behind Askey's first choice players in each position. I suspect he's a player who could go to Morecombe or Macclesfield and extend his career by 3 or 4 years and another 100 plus appearances, or have another year with us and maybe play another 10 or 15 games. 

So it will be 18 - 20 core players and 4 - 6 occasional ones to replace short-term loan players of seasons past, some of whom will be players Askey thinks have the potential to become something better.  Whether these Welsh player meet his criteria is only speculation, although I suspect Askey and maybe Rudge have been and had a look. 

[Jacko51]

On 03/06/2020 at 14:13, Joe B said:

Its petty, divisive, childish, and sanctimonious of me but.... I keep thinking of all the people who gave us stick for trying to change things.

I know its not the mature thing to do but every time I read these comments flying out of every corner of the football club I think back to some of the mindless debates that were had on here, Radio Stoke, and social media.

I'm happy to get criticism for saying this. Fair few people have gone very quiet about some opinions they used to hold, despite overwhelming evidence from all parties that the protestors were 100% right in what they were doing.

And all those people who said the Shanahans had no money and wouldn't be able to take the club forward.

[werstayinup]

I think we will target 2 maybe 3 decent players depending on who signs again but I also think we will bring in a couple of untried players(if they end up like Burgess its a win win),I trust Askey whatever happens

[robf]

7 minutes ago, werstayinup said:

I think we will target 2 maybe 3 decent players depending on who signs again but I also think we will bring in a couple of untried players(if they end up like Burgess its a win win),I trust Askey whatever happens

That's very much my view. I think he did that last season with Hurst (who I reckon they see as one for the future) and Burgess (who when he was nowhere near the squad at the start of the season was seen like that).