Transfer Rumours Pre-Season

[valesince83]

Whatever happened to scouting in Ireland, sure John rudge for a few decent players from over there

[Iron Curtain]

6 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

And all those people who said the Shanahans had no money and wouldn't be able to take the club forward.

Ahhhh the favourite mantra of the SDL, I remember it well! 
 

Hopefully they now have the weight of “evidence” to realise they were talking out of their ars*s

[Walka003]

Whatever happened to scouting in Ireland, sure John rudge for a few decent players from over there

Any half decent Irish player seems to go to Peterborough or Oxford for mad money.

Look at Gavin Whyte, he was sitting at Keele services on the way to sign for vale when he got a call from Oxford and signed there instead. He then moved to Cardiff for a seven figure fee!

[Jacob_123]

Any half decent Irish player seems to go to Peterborough or Oxford for mad money.

Look at Gavin Whyte, he was sitting at Keele services on the way to sign for vale when he got a call from Oxford and signed there instead. He then moved to Cardiff for a seven figure fee!

Think you’re thinking of Mark Sykes who
Is still at Oxford.

[Walka003]

Think you’re thinking of Mark Sykes who
Is still at Oxford.

Yep, you're right!

[JRC]

10 hours ago, valesince83 said:

Whatever happened to scouting in Ireland, sure John rudge for a few decent players from over there

During the Rudge era we were quite good at tapping onto areas where other clubs weren't really looking. Now scouting has become a major industry within an industry with clubs have massive networks. The evidence is there is still lots of hidden talent but there are many more people looking at it. Premier League Clubs also went through a phase (just after Vardy made it big) of hoovering a lot of it up. I can't think of a single case of a non league player going straight to a Premiership Club and being successful and I think this may be a trend in reverse. I think the evidence is lower league players do develop quicker with a couple of years in leagues 1 or 2 first.

Despite Wales being generally a rugby area the North and Mid Wales coast are more football focused. Vale might have identified it as an area with relatively little big club scouting at the moment. Traditionally it was an area Wrexham and Chester recruited from. Both have failing youth development systems so there may be some opportunities in the region. Wherever clubs look identifying the uncut gems is a difficult thing to do with many wasted opportunities than successful ones. Rudge spent hours and hours watching non league football for maybe one signing every couple of years. I know Rudge put a lot of store in player's touch under presure and that what but him off a lot of non league players with big reputations was they often had "a first touch like a blacksmiths hammer." I think players thriving mainly due to physical attributes struggle moving up the leagues where all the players tend to be stronger and faster.

We also haven't given any youth team players contracts this year so we may well be looking for a couple of players to fill those slots. I believe part of Pugh's role is getting development players ready for the first team and he ain't going to be that busy with Campbell-Gordon and Hurst as the only two!

[Joe B]

I've said it before, but we're never going to overtake over clubs by trying to outspend them; we're never going to have the money to do what Bradford and Salford do. Trying to beat them at their own game is daft.

I know people don't like it but I still think data analytics is a great potential avenue for us. We wouldn't use it solely to sign players from, but certain players may flag up as having some underrated qualities (the ability to break lines in passing, or get into good scoring positions even if the goals aren't flowing). Obviously, we'd then scout them in person rigorously, but the initial identification stage could be streamlined and offer more 'overlooked' prospects.

Brentford recognised they were never going to spent their way to success years ago, and completely committed themselves to trusting data to find undervalued players, bring them in, sell for a profit, and repeat; Said Benhrama, Neal Maupay, Byran Mbuemo, John Egan, Florian Josefzoon, Ryan Woods, Romaine Sawyers, Ollie Watkins are a short list of players they've brought in, unheralded for comparatively low sums, and flipped them for massive profit within a few years (or will do very soon).

They identified the EFL and Ligue 2 as gold mines of untapped talent, overlooked by the big-spending 'traditional' clubs they were competing with. Now, they're their 4th in the Championship with one of the lower budgets, building a new stadium, and continually churn out massive profits, despite selling their top scorer last summer. They knew that Ollie Watkins (signed from Exeter), Benrahama (Nice Reserves), and Mbuemo (Troyes) could plug the gap left by Neal Maupay, who was signed for £1.6m from Saint Etienne Reserves, and sold after 2 seasons for £20m for Brighton.

Watkins, Benrahma, and Mbuemo, who have replaced his goals, are probably worth over £50m cumulatively, were signed for about £5m between them.

I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services for clubs like ours who might just give us an edge in the upcoming windows.

Well-run clubs at every level have similar models; utilisation of data in recruitment, sustainability as a paramount belief, giving managers time to have an impact, and focusing on stability and forward planning. Liverpool, Norwich, Brentford, Peterborough all have all of the above qualities to how they are run.

[dishydave]

"I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services"

With our owners being experts in data analytics it maybe something we are already doing or looking to do in the future

[JRC]

11 minutes ago, dishydave said:

"I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services"

With our owners being experts in data analytics it maybe something we are already doing or looking to do in the future

I think that is what they actually do in the new media suite they built.

[DistantVale]

2 hours ago, Joe B said:

I've said it before, but we're never going to overtake over clubs by trying to outspend them; we're never going to have the money to do what Bradford and Salford do. Trying to beat them at their own game is daft.

I know people don't like it but I still think data analytics is a great potential avenue for us. We wouldn't use it solely to sign players from, but certain players may flag up as having some underrated qualities (the ability to break lines in passing, or get into good scoring positions even if the goals aren't flowing). Obviously, we'd then scout them in person rigorously, but the initial identification stage could be streamlined and offer more 'overlooked' prospects.

Brentford recognised they were never going to spent their way to success years ago, and completely committed themselves to trusting data to find undervalued players, bring them in, sell for a profit, and repeat; Said Benhrama, Neal Maupay, Byran Mbuemo, John Egan, Florian Josefzoon, Ryan Woods, Romaine Sawyers, Ollie Watkins are a short list of players they've brought in, unheralded for comparatively low sums, and flipped them for massive profit within a few years (or will do very soon).

They identified the EFL and Ligue 2 as gold mines of untapped talent, overlooked by the big-spending 'traditional' clubs they were competing with. Now, they're their 4th in the Championship with one of the lower budgets, building a new stadium, and continually churn out massive profits, despite selling their top scorer last summer. They knew that Ollie Watkins (signed from Exeter), Benrahama (Nice Reserves), and Mbuemo (Troyes) could plug the gap left by Neal Maupay, who was signed for £1.6m from Saint Etienne Reserves, and sold after 2 seasons for £20m for Brighton.

Watkins, Benrahma, and Mbuemo, who have replaced his goals, are probably worth over £50m cumulatively, were signed for about £5m between them.

I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services for clubs like ours who might just give us an edge in the upcoming windows.

Well-run clubs at every level have similar models; utilisation of data in recruitment, sustainability as a paramount belief, giving managers time to have an impact, and focusing on stability and forward planning. Liverpool, Norwich, Brentford, Peterborough all have all of the above qualities to how they are run.

The Brentford model has worked very well,  however the 144 million that the owner has pumped into the club may well have helped a long the way !

[JRC]

2 hours ago, Joe B said:

 

Well-run clubs at every level have similar models; utilisation of data in recruitment, sustainability as a paramount belief, giving managers time to have an impact, and focusing on stability and forward planning. Liverpool, Norwich, Brentford, Peterborough all have all of the above qualities to how they are run.

The other thing those clubs have in common is a model of how they want to play. They then buy players who will fit into that system. Crewe are similar but then develop players to play in there system. A fair few Crewe players flop when they leave because they aren't that well suited to how other teams play. The likes of Tuttle or Harry Davis haven't become bad players but if a team wants to adopt a longer more physical game they become fish out of water.

We are going a similar way and do now have a defined pattern of play. Out of Joyce, Conlon, Burgess and Oyeleke I'd say only the latter is really suited to playing in a 4 4 2. The other 3 are much better suited to 4 3 3 or 3 5 2. The main problem under Aspin was he recruited to play 3 4 3 or 3 5 2 then inexplicably decided to stick with 4 4 2. Where better analysis helps is it allows you to see which players do things best suited to how you want to play. In some ways it made Askey's revival easier for him as he really just needed to play a system that suited some decent players Aspin had recruited. That 2018/19 team wasn't world beating BUT should have been comfortably mid table.

[Doha]

3 hours ago, Joe B said:

I've said it before, but we're never going to overtake over clubs by trying to outspend them; we're never going to have the money to do what Bradford and Salford do. Trying to beat them at their own game is daft.

I know people don't like it but I still think data analytics is a great potential avenue for us. We wouldn't use it solely to sign players from, but certain players may flag up as having some underrated qualities (the ability to break lines in passing, or get into good scoring positions even if the goals aren't flowing). Obviously, we'd then scout them in person rigorously, but the initial identification stage could be streamlined and offer more 'overlooked' prospects.

Brentford recognised they were never going to spent their way to success years ago, and completely committed themselves to trusting data to find undervalued players, bring them in, sell for a profit, and repeat; Said Benhrama, Neal Maupay, Byran Mbuemo, John Egan, Florian Josefzoon, Ryan Woods, Romaine Sawyers, Ollie Watkins are a short list of players they've brought in, unheralded for comparatively low sums, and flipped them for massive profit within a few years (or will do very soon).

They identified the EFL and Ligue 2 as gold mines of untapped talent, overlooked by the big-spending 'traditional' clubs they were competing with. Now, they're their 4th in the Championship with one of the lower budgets, building a new stadium, and continually churn out massive profits, despite selling their top scorer last summer. They knew that Ollie Watkins (signed from Exeter), Benrahama (Nice Reserves), and Mbuemo (Troyes) could plug the gap left by Neal Maupay, who was signed for £1.6m from Saint Etienne Reserves, and sold after 2 seasons for £20m for Brighton.

Watkins, Benrahma, and Mbuemo, who have replaced his goals, are probably worth over £50m cumulatively, were signed for about £5m between them.

I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services for clubs like ours who might just give us an edge in the upcoming windows.

Well-run clubs at every level have similar models; utilisation of data in recruitment, sustainability as a paramount belief, giving managers time to have an impact, and focusing on stability and forward planning. Liverpool, Norwich, Brentford, Peterborough all have all of the above qualities to how they are run.

Correct. Top flight clubs have scouted via software for years.

 

[Joe B]

1 hour ago, Doha said:

Correct. Top flight clubs have scouted via software for years.

 

It would require initial investment, but if one player was turned for a big profit, you've made your money back.

Trying to compete with Bradford for the same players will always end in failure; Billy Knott, Mark Marshall, Alex Jones, Kurtis Guthrie, to name 4.

Obviously we need to have the proven, there and done it lads, but 2-3 'punts', overlooked players from overlooked divisions, in the squad could make us some serious dollar down the line.

Its similar to the Development Squad we tried a few years ago; it probably cost Norm a fair whack to hire George Foster and have a good coach like Jimmy Bell taking care of it, but 5 years later he's raking in £2m from Hugill, signed from the 9th tier, and Andoh, signed from Cyprus, would have fetched similar figures barring injury.

[The French Connection]

I've said it before, but we're never going to overtake over clubs by trying to outspend them; we're never going to have the money to do what Bradford and Salford do. Trying to beat them at their own game is daft.
I know people don't like it but I still think data analytics is a great potential avenue for us. We wouldn't use it solely to sign players from, but certain players may flag up as having some underrated qualities (the ability to break lines in passing, or get into good scoring positions even if the goals aren't flowing). Obviously, we'd then scout them in person rigorously, but the initial identification stage could be streamlined and offer more 'overlooked' prospects.
Brentford recognised they were never going to spent their way to success years ago, and completely committed themselves to trusting data to find undervalued players, bring them in, sell for a profit, and repeat; Said Benhrama, Neal Maupay, Byran Mbuemo, John Egan, Florian Josefzoon, Ryan Woods, Romaine Sawyers, Ollie Watkins are a short list of players they've brought in, unheralded for comparatively low sums, and flipped them for massive profit within a few years (or will do very soon).
They identified the EFL and Ligue 2 as gold mines of untapped talent, overlooked by the big-spending 'traditional' clubs they were competing with. Now, they're their 4th in the Championship with one of the lower budgets, building a new stadium, and continually churn out massive profits, despite selling their top scorer last summer. They knew that Ollie Watkins (signed from Exeter), Benrahama (Nice Reserves), and Mbuemo (Troyes) could plug the gap left by Neal Maupay, who was signed for £1.6m from Saint Etienne Reserves, and sold after 2 seasons for £20m for Brighton.
Watkins, Benrahma, and Mbuemo, who have replaced his goals, are probably worth over £50m cumulatively, were signed for about £5m between them.
I'm not saying we'd ever commit to their model as aggressively, as their owner has a history in analytics, but there are loads of companies who offer consultancy services for clubs like ours who might just give us an edge in the upcoming windows.
Well-run clubs at every level have similar models; utilisation of data in recruitment, sustainability as a paramount belief, giving managers time to have an impact, and focusing on stability and forward planning. Liverpool, Norwich, Brentford, Peterborough all have all of the above qualities to how they are run.

Given the business the Shanahans are in, it would be surprising if they couldn't do a Brentford.

[valeparklife]

https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/sport/18501703.prestatyn-town-fc-jordan-davies-linked-port-vale-move/