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mr.hobblesworth

Boris Johnson is the new Prime Minister

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13 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Paul I've literally always got evidence. It's kind of my thing. You must be confusing me with a remainer.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36029211

 

I accept your apology.

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

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16 hours ago, geosname said:

Don't knock the corner shop or small businesses mate

Didn't mean to knock the corner shop or small businesses Geo, they provide many jobs and hence taxes to the country and as such are a very valuable part of the UK economy..

Edited by Paul6754

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10 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

Aston University did an analysis of the impact of EU regulations on the UK market and concluded that overall it was very positive, not withstanding the obvious point that too much red tape can weigh down business and constrain them. But they get red tape from our own government and as Paul says you would have to fit in with other countries' regulations. It's costly to trade outside the EU, very costly.

Getting back to this academic study. It's not biased. It's done by university academics researching the effect of regulations on the UK. Journal of Social Policy vol 46 if you want to read it! What did they conclude?

Well, as they rightly say, context is all important. You can't take the cost on its own without looking at the benefits on the other side of the coin. Leavers claimed it was costing businesses over £33 billion a year but their conclusion was that their argument was only looking at costs and not at benefits so it was an unfair figure. For example, a DEFRA-commissioned study projected that air quality policies introduced by the EU between 1990 and 2001 affecting transport and electricity generation reduced premature deaths by 6,857, and saved between 81,601 to 244,803 life years, in 2010 alone.

They heavily criticised Vote Leave's methodology and pointed out that the health and welfare benefits were often intangible and certainly meant less time off for sickness. But regulations like paternity leave, maximum working hours, paid holiday time, pensions, will affect employers but I would have thought were only right and proper in 2019. Maybe the cat is out of the bag and what leavers want is deregulation and a worsening of workers' conditions?

The CBI believes that overall the costs outweigh the benefits and the study also points out that UK regulations are often stricter than EU ones!  So there are costs, most of them imposed by the UK, but as ever RB has taken the data out of context and looked only at one side of the equation, costs, without examining the benefits. Context is all important.  

 

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13 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

It's not a red herring though. It's completely relevant. 95% of uk businesses have to comply with EU regulation despite not benefitting from EU trade. There will be a cost to almost every single one of those businesses in complying with those regulations.

And it's amazing to see you comparing an actual country to a political union supposedly focused on the economy and trade. The truth is the EU wants to become a super state and I think you know that.

 

As I read it - the main hurdle to becoming a 'Super State' is France and Germany; both will want to be boss cocky. On top of which, in my opinion, Russia will be very unhappy with a Super State as a next door neighbour. Then there is China, using the tried and true British Empire model of economic hegemony it is slowly planting it's flag and dominance across the planet.  

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10 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

Do you know what being too conservative is? 

What other wishy washy evidence have I posted? The official findings of the high court? The official ecj website? The office eu budget? 

You've made that up Paul.

And I specifically picked a bbc link because I know it will be remain biased. It still backs up my point. 

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11 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Didn't mean to knock the corner shop or small businesses Geo, they provide many jobs and hence taxes to the country and as such are a very valuable part of the UK economy..

No offence meant mate..... it just jogged memories of the old corner shops where you could pick up anything from a couple of slices of bacon to a sump nut for a mark2 cortina.

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I think there is a lot of posturing and feather puffing going on at the moment..... hard nosed brexit talk for brexiteers and the EU so both will take notice for a different reason..... now there are mutterings of wanting a deal..... that's the backstop in case a deal can't be done.... ie the EU  won't negotiate etc.

There is also a lot of Tory flag waving...... Scotland and Wales visits..... the northern powerhouse (whatever that is) etc etc..... police recruitment more spending etc..... that was to be expected surely.

I think Boris actually wants a deal, for all his bluster and showmanship, he actually needs a deal, notably different than Mays deal to save face...... I also think privately the EU wants a deal although they can't afford to show weakness if agreeing to one.

If they can cut out the crap, get around a table, it could be done...... it's possibly the only way to stop the country being ripped apart.

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26 minutes ago, geosname said:

I think there is a lot of posturing and feather puffing going on at the moment..... hard nosed brexit talk for brexiteers and the EU so both will take notice for a different reason..... now there are mutterings of wanting a deal..... that's the backstop in case a deal can't be done.... ie the EU  won't negotiate etc.

There is also a lot of Tory flag waving...... Scotland and Wales visits..... the northern powerhouse (whatever that is) etc etc..... police recruitment more spending etc..... that was to be expected surely.

I think Boris actually wants a deal, for all his bluster and showmanship, he actually needs a deal, notably different than Mays deal to save face...... I also think privately the EU wants a deal although they can't afford to show weakness if agreeing to one.

If they can cut out the crap, get around a table, it could be done...... it's possibly the only way to stop the country being ripped apart.

Johnson is hell bent on an election, they have covered the media for ages for the leadership election by a minute amount of the population, now roaming the country promising small amounts of money on projects already on the stocks. Northern Powerhouse an Osbourne idea to divert bad publicity that all tax payers money was spent in the South. Promised modern rail links etc, but Failing Grayling say no more. Police reduced by 23,000 since Austerity started, so just putting them back. Cant see the EU changing the rules for the UK. The future is grim.

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10 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Johnson is hell bent on an election, they have covered the media for ages for the leadership election by a minute amount of the population, now roaming the country promising small amounts of money on projects already on the stocks. Northern Powerhouse an Osbourne idea to divert bad publicity that all tax payers money was spent in the South. Promised modern rail links etc, but Failing Grayling say no more. Police reduced by 23,000 since Austerity started, so just putting them back. Cant see the EU changing the rules for the UK. The future is grim.

There aren't any rules about renegotiating..... they can if they want to..... Will they?

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3 minutes ago, geosname said:

There aren't any rules about renegotiating..... they can if they want to..... Will they?

Negotiations will take place after we have left, but we will be a third party country under WTO rules. We will still have our debts to pay under international law. We will no longer have a 2 year implementation period. They will only renegotiate if we amend our red lines and retain the agreed withdrawal agreement, with a further extension to do so. Could all fall apart if sufficient EU countries object. It will be hard for them to lose 10% of their trade with us, but we lose 40%, who is best placed to absorb the drop. Which leads us to who benefits? Who has the most tax havens?

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On 27/07/2019 at 11:00, Regal Beagle said:

"Omg I can't believe we're making a super deal with the worlds most powerful and rich country and our closest ally, this really is typical Boris, he's only doing this to make himself look good"

He's had a brilliant start to life as PM, keep up the good work Bojja.

Prepare for remarks about #chlorinated chicken.🤣

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Correct. And every politician he's met lately has told him he's off his head.

The tide is turning.

I think it was Maynard Keynes who once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" 

Now that's a good definition of intelligence.

 

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1 minute ago, TheSage said:

Correct. And every politician he's met lately has told him he's off his head.

The tide is turning.

I think it was Maynard Keynes who once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" 

Now that's a good definition of intelligence.

 

When you are in a hole and carry on digging , what does that mean? The opposite ?

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Correct. And every politician he's met lately has told him he's off his head.

The tide is turning.

I think it was Maynard Keynes who once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" 

Now that's a good definition of intelligence.

 

Yeah the tide is turning:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/30/boris-johnsons-new-pm-polling-boost-second-blairs-modern-times/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1159414/Boris-Johnson-new-pm-news-uk-news-general-election-latest-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-wales

https://www.businessinsider.com/conservatives-surge-in-opinion-polls-after-prime-minister-johnson-victory-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

 

Good luck with that.

And newsflash, in case you didn't get it from Brexit, Trump or the EU elections - People don't trust your politicians. The people trust Boris more than any remoaner MP spouting a load of made up nonsense.

I cannot wait to leave.

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9 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Yeah the tide is turning:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/30/boris-johnsons-new-pm-polling-boost-second-blairs-modern-times/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1159414/Boris-Johnson-new-pm-news-uk-news-general-election-latest-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-wales

https://www.businessinsider.com/conservatives-surge-in-opinion-polls-after-prime-minister-johnson-victory-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

 

Good luck with that.

And newsflash, in case you didn't get it from Brexit, Trump or the EU elections - People don't trust your politicians. The people trust Boris more than any remoaner MP spouting a load of made up nonsense.

I cannot wait to leave.

That's the effect of propaganda mate.... the ability to make the sheep believe in unicorns and fairy snot

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9 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Yeah the tide is turning:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/30/boris-johnsons-new-pm-polling-boost-second-blairs-modern-times/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1159414/Boris-Johnson-new-pm-news-uk-news-general-election-latest-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-wales

https://www.businessinsider.com/conservatives-surge-in-opinion-polls-after-prime-minister-johnson-victory-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

 

Good luck with that.

And newsflash, in case you didn't get it from Brexit, Trump or the EU elections - People don't trust your politicians. The people trust Boris more than any remoaner MP spouting a load of made up nonsense.

I cannot wait to leave.

Parliament will probably bin No Deal. There should be another referendum but leavers are running scared. So there could be an election that Johnson will lose. He could even lose his own seat. That's a real possibility. That would be funny. Everyone knows what a clown he is, accept you.

There will be millions more young people able to vote next time, plus the 1.2 million Brits living in the EU who were denied a vote in the referendum. 

I'm glad that you think all my posts on this thread have been made up nonsense because that means I'm doing a good job in not allowing you to get away with any of your lies, including the red bus. You'll just have to throw your toys out of the pram and fall back on your tried and trusted weapons of fake news and project fear. Always good to shut down debate.

 

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I wish people would stop with the millions of young people..... are they the same young people who commit knife crime..... take knives to school..... do stupid stuff to get hits on face ache.... get absolutely rat arsed..... joy ride.... get hurt feelings when people disagree etc etc?.... so what's changed?

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