Tax credits - congratulations to the House of Lords

[portvaleofbelvoir]

Well I was delighted with what the Lords did, even though I don’t agree with the institution itself.

 

The thing is that we do need a second chamber to regulate the other.

 

As for democracy and manifestos. While the Conservatives did not have the Tax Credit cuts in their manifesto they quite clearly want to cut the State down as much as they can. While I’m not a Conservative I do think they genuinely believe that it’s the best way for the country.

 

I don’t agree as if everything was left to the markets it would be chaos. We need some middle ground.

 

We need more equality in this country. It makes people’s quality of life much better. And that includes the rich.

[cheshirevaliant]

It's not a fair point though. Several times in the run up to the election, tories were asked 'are you goint to cut tax credits?' and every time their reply was 'no'. People voted tory (at least partly) because of this and it has turned out that they were just lied to. Their subsequent announcement about raising the minimum wage is irrelevant.

 

Politician lies. Front benchers on all sides do it, that's how they get to the front bench.

[mr.hobblesworth]

A) They normally wait longer than 6 months to break those promises

B) They are normally held to account by the press and media, far more so then these lot have been.

[cheshirevaliant]

A) They normally wait longer than 6 months to break those promises

B) They are normally held to account by the press and media, far more so then these lot have been.

 

a) Time is surely irrelevant? A broken promise is a broken promise, however long it takes to break.

b) I'm sure the likes of Private Eye will have plenty to say on this issue. I can't remember the last time the government were held to account (properly) by the mainstream press and media, as the press and media recently have backed the government of the day.

[For Us All]

tories in breaking promises non-shocker

 

of course politicians shouldn't go back on what they say, but **** me, if anybody voted for them and feels let down well you're thick as **** and are getting what you deserved

 

i don't trust the few politicians i actually like, let alone the ones that are clearly evil

 

Thanks for that,I bet the other 11,334,575 voters will also be pleased for those few kind words. :woy:

[For Us All]

The whole point of having an upper chamber is to scrutinise laws and send them back if necessary. So in my mind they're doing their job.

 

Here's a video of the pig****er lying through his teeth.

 

http://c.brightcove.com/services/mobile/streaming/index/master.m3u8?videoId=4207024618 001&pubId=4221396001

 

Nobody's died though(as far as I know)?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3289169/Faux-sincerity-Weasel-words-Spin-King-strikes-MICHAEL-BURLEIGH-Tony-Blair-s-controversial-Iraq-war-apology.html

[nowag]

Congrats to the House of Lords regarding the govt's planned tax credit changes

 

Not sure anything will actually get changed but it has highlighted the issue and hopefully will get the govt to look at it again at least..and then do more to help those who will lose out as tax credits change and other changes come in..just doesn't sit right

 

No problem for Cameron & Osborne they can do like Blair did use the parliament act,

[Andyregs]

tories in breaking promises non-shocker

 

of course politicians shouldn't go back on what they say, but **** me, if anybody voted for them and feels let down well you're thick as **** and are getting what you deserved

 

i don't trust the few politicians i actually like, let alone the ones that are clearly evil

 

I am surprised when I hear people who claim any sort of benefit or are not in the wealthiest sections of society, who voted for Tories, and then act angry or shocked at any policy that doesn't benefit them. What on earth did they think they were voting for.

[Howjy04]

Nobody's died though(as far as I know)?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3289169/Faux-sincerity-Weasel-words-Spin-King-strikes-MICHAEL-BURLEIGH-Tony-Blair-s-controversial-Iraq-war-apology.html

 

The biggest liar in the history of liars.Hanging's too good.

[Fosse69]

Only China has a larger upper house, USA with 6 times the population manages with 100 members. How long will our sham democracy last? Does any party want to change it. Time for a federal Britain with 5/6 regional governments similar to London,an elected parliament with 300 in the lower house and 100 in the upper house. Or do we carry on as if we had a large empire all over the world, we probably had fewer MPs then.

[For Us All]

The biggest liar in the history of liars.Hanging's too good.

 

He's getting his excuses in early Howjy,it's a pre-emptive strike against Chilcot.

[Warren]

I think the cross bench motion to cause a delay was appropriate to the Lords role and helpful. The motions put forward by political parties in opposition in the Commons cause a constitutional issue that will have to be addressed.

 

It is not easy to deliver the savings needed in public spending. I am currently working on contract for a government department that is required to put forward proposals to save 25-40% of its budget. It does seem that viable plans in the 20% plus range are in hand and it doesn't seem that all the staff are in mutiny about this because a voluntary release scheme will operate. Generally there are staff employed who will find it reasonably straight forward to find alternative employment or retire.

 

Of course those affected on low income and relying on tax credits can't say that and that is why it is right to look at this again and provide more gradualism in the change process which is right in its motivation overall but can lose its moral compass in implementation without care. Employers should pay a living wage and driving up pay contributes to productivity as employers invest in capital instead of relying too much on cheap labour.

 

I feel in the end that Conservative overall government spending plans will end up slipping to be similar to what Labour proposed in the election. One can speculate that if Labour had been elected their plans would have slipped considerably from their manifesto and have moved public spending up / deficit reduction down to a similar degree. But with Labour the loonie factor is always there in the background. I have seen Militant Tendency in action and we big time don't need those sort of people.

[The French Connection]

If you suggest the lords should have a say consider the chaos that would ensue and the political shuffling to get enough lords to support your party... ie... more conservative lords when the tories hold power and more labour lords when reversed.... the lib dems just need to make friends just in case.

 

Look back over the years and Labour has wanted to reform the HOL and the Tories have blocked it. Ironic they now want change when the boot is on the other foot. What there ought to be is an elected second chamber of some sort, which Labour has sought for years. The elected second chamber would then be expected to stop crass policies such as Osborne has come up with over Tax Credits, and quite right too.

 

The more Osborne harps on about all of this the more of an idiot he makes himself and the more he shows himself to be out of touch with the real world. Thankfully, it also means he is far less likely to achieve hi cherished ambition of becoming PM later in this parliamnet!

[geosname]

A) They normally wait longer than 6 months to break those promises

 

How long did it tale labour to do its last U turn?

[geosname]

Look back over the years and Labour has wanted to reform the HOL and the Tories have blocked it. Ironic they now want change when the boot is on the other foot. What there ought to be is an elected second chamber of some sort, which Labour has sought for years. The elected second chamber would then be expected to stop crass policies such as Osborne has come up with over Tax Credits, and quite right too.

 

The more Osborne harps on about all of this the more of an idiot he makes himself and the more he shows himself to be out of touch with the real world. Thankfully, it also means he is far less likely to achieve hi cherished ambition of becoming PM later in this parliamnet!

 

Everyone wants to change the HoL when it suits their purpose.

A second chamber elected by whom?... the disenfranchised public who cant be bothered to vote for MPs?