Stevenage (H) FAC2R Match thread 12th Dec

[bomber]

Tommy Witherington seems to be doing very well at Aldershot.! Maybe a bit soon for him but there are some decent managers around.  AC may be a good coach but he is no manager, been out thought on too many occasions for me.

[Howjy04]

Tommy Witherington seems to be doing very well at Aldershot.! Maybe a bit soon for him but there are some decent managers around.  AC may be a good coach but he is no manager, been out thought on too many occasions for me.

He’s been on Talksport today.(Widdrington)

[CambridgeDon]

33 minutes ago, bomber said:

Tommy Witherington seems to be doing very well at Aldershot.! Maybe a bit soon for him but there are some decent managers around.  AC may be a good coach but he is no manager, been out thought on too many occasions for me.

Watched the latter stages of last night's game. Very enjoyable match and Aldershot played really well with a clear plan that they executed well. Didn't't realise it was Tommy but he came across very well, personable and engaging, though he had clearly had a good night. Who knows?

[JoeB2]

On 13/12/2023 at 11:33, ValeForever. said:

This idea that people are "voting with their feet" has to stop. I haven't looked, but I bet if you look at our average home gate this season, it won't be far off the average for the past 2 x seasons. Ppl going on like we've lost thousands of fans overnight. We haven't.

Last night's attendance was <ovf censored> because it was a Tuesday night replay which nobody wanted, ahead of next week's QF v Boro. Simple as that.

We have several homes games coming up in the next few weeks, including 3 this week alone. People are clearly prioritising certain games in the build up to Christmas based on cost. Last night was right at the bottom of the priority list for myself & I'd guess many others, hence the low attendance. 

My views on AC. I'm not a massive Crosby fan, but I can also totally understand why the club are not yet looking to make a change. A few points to flip things around a little & see things through the clubs eyes:

We're 6 points clear of the relegation zone with a game in hand on a couple. That's following an absolute stinking run of results. From a League position perspective, what were people expecting this season? Did ppl genuinely think we'd be pushing for top 6? I expected mid table with ups & downs & so far, that is exactly what we are getting.

Freak opening day aside can anybody recall a game we've been battered in? We've been in every single game this season, despite not performing particularly well at times (Cheltenham at home stands out as the 1 x abomination) & struggling for goals. We've lost by the odd goal v Bolton & Derby & not looked a million miles off it.

He's changed the style of football with a brand new squad. They have been together for 4 months & most are on 2 x year deals, including Crosby himself. He's playing in to the clubs ambitions around giving youth a chance if it's good enough. There's an argument to say (& this is all ifs & buts) had we signed somebody who could stick the ball in the net, we'd be comfortably top half & potentially knocking for top 6.

He's made a bit of money through the performances in the cups, including lining up a League Cup QF next week where we stand a slim, yet realistic chance, of pulling off a result & reaching a 2 x legged semi final in a major cup against a prem giant.

Hypothetically, if we beat Wigan on Saturday & are sat comfortably in mid table, then pull off a shock result v Boro to reach the semis, are ppl still calling for his head? I'd also ask, if we were having this season & DC was in charge, would people be calling for his head? I'll tell you the answer, not a chance. 

Last night was a kick in the teeth for the club. There's been a few results this season like that unfortunately. We were 1 x minute away from a potentially lucrative shot in the FA Cup, twice. It stings. I'll add, we went out to Exeter at home last season under DC.

Several home games coming up & I think the picture will become much clearer by the middle of Jan. This is a poor League this year & the standard compared to last year is nowhere near. Nobody (bar game 1) has blown us away & that's because there's not alot between any of the teams. Games decided by small moments of quality up top & lack or errors at the back (Bolton & Derby games).

I'm clearly in the minority from a OVF perspective but I think he should be given time. He would get the full season for me, including Jan transfer window. There has to be some continuation at some point, we can't keep ripping things up & starting over. I think lots of ppl are jumping on the sacking bandwagon without considering all of the points, because it's much easier to go with the majority. I genuinely do not think he comes close to taking us down.

Finally, if somebody had said to you at the start of the season that we'll be mid table come the New Year, ask yourself, would you have accepted it?

4 of the next 6 league games are at home & we've got struggling Wycombe & Carlisle away from home. We're 4 points off 11th placed Shrewsbury who we have 2 x games in hand over (they have scored 13 league goals all season & have lost more games than us). We're 4 points off 12th placed Northampton who have also lost more games than us. We have 1 x game in hand on them as well. We've drawn 3 x games over 90 minutes with 3rd placed Stevenage, 2 of those away from home.

Things aren't as grim as ppl would have you believe. I've witnessed much much worse following the Vale. Please show some patience & support. We are trying to build slowly, the club have been crystal clear on the strategy. Back them.

The most well-justified defence of Crosby so far. Far better than 'don't sack him as patience is inherently always good', as some argue.

You correctly identify he has a run of games now where he can drag himself out of the mire. I'm not convinced he will as so far he's shown himself unable to address the issues that everyone can see. However, I accept that in 8-10 games time the picture could be slightly different - but it's a lot of 'ifs' and 'maybes' without much evidence.

Good to see someone actually justify their argument. 

[Port Vale Paul]

2 hours ago, smithie said:

If you're saying we've got no chance of getting anything from Wigan or Wycombe we might as well give up. 

Thankfully football throws up surprises and changes in fortune - l doubt many were predicting we'd score three times on Tuesday. 

But the question was; If we win one/both of the league of games and beat Boro, would you still want AC gone given where that would put us in the league and Cup? 

Wycombe will be targeting the game against us a must win and will go all out to win. The only win we have registered in the last 13 was Exeter which was an ugly win but still 3 points to build on. So onto Tues night I was very optimistic and still had 1 foot in the AC camp up until halftime when Massey was subbed arguably in his best game of the season, my mom at that point, he then goes and takes Oli and Alfie off and changes the whole team set up. AC lost me at that point. I and I've been alot of games this season can not see where the next win is going to come from certainly not out of the crop coming up. Hope I'm wrong but unfortunately can not see it under AC's regime.

[Fosse69]

Wycombe will be targeting the game against us a must win and will go all out to win. The only win we have registered in the last 13 was Exeter which was an ugly win but still 3 points to build on. So onto Tues night I was very optimistic and still had 1 foot in the AC camp up until halftime when Massey was subbed arguably in his best game of the season, my mom at that point, he then goes and takes Oli and Alfie off and changes the whole team set up. AC lost me at that point. I and I've been alot of games this season can not see where the next win is going to come from certainly not out of the crop coming up. Hope I'm wrong but unfortunately can not see it under AC's regime.

Was not Massey injured?

Sent from my SM-A715F using onevalefan mobile app

[Port Vale Paul]

26 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Was not Massey injured?

Sent from my SM-A715F using onevalefan mobile app
 

A tight calf so AC said post match, and so was Oli and Alfie both at the same time hence them both being subbed at the same time. All 3 looked fine before the subs, but hey ho got to trust the science. Smells a little bit bs,y to me.

[Fosse69]

A tight calf so AC said post match, and so was Oli and Alfie both at the same time hence them both being subbed at the same time. All 3 looked fine before the subs, but hey ho got to trust the science. Smells a little bit bs,y to me.

Will have to wait to see who plays on Saturday, only the players know how they feel, they may look alright.

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[ValeForever.]

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

The most well-justified defence of Crosby so far. Far better than 'don't sack him as patience is inherently always good', as some argue.

You correctly identify he has a run of games now where he can drag himself out of the mire. I'm not convinced he will as so far he's shown himself unable to address the issues that everyone can see. However, I accept that in 8-10 games time the picture could be slightly different - but it's a lot of 'ifs' and 'maybes' without much evidence.

Good to see someone actually justify their argument. 

Appreciate that. Just my point of view of course.

I agree the next group of games will give us the answers we need. 7 of our next 11 league games are at home (not that our home form is anything to shout about right now). We've also got to squeeze 2 home games in somewhere v Fleetwood & Orient.

Worth noting the 4 away games are Wycombe, Carlisle, Reading & Fleetwood. 3 of those currently occupy the bottom 4 & Wycombe are level on points with us.

There will be nowhere to hide after the next 10/11 league games. For what it's worth I think we'll be comfortable mid table, but there will still be fans wanting change.

[Loggerheads Sage]

2 hours ago, Port Vale Paul said:

A tight calf so AC said post match, and so was Oli and Alfie both at the same time hence them both being subbed at the same time. All 3 looked fine before the subs, but hey ho got to trust the science. Smells a little bit bs,y to me.

I share your cynicism.  Another scenario has grant can play 45 minutes,  so he comes on for Massey.  As it goes to extra time  , grant has to come off, time up. Incredible coincidence that oli and Alfie have to come off at the exact same time with injuries?  Science said 60 minutes?  I think someone joked they expected a guy with a laptop to run on b4 extra time and say, " computer says no, we concede, we can't do extra time "   an incredibly important game, potentially cost the club up to a million IF we were to beat maidstone and IF ( yes, I know) got a big draw .. I would have expected the manager to think, balls to this, this is my career on the line, as well as vales future,  they are staying on a bit longer. 

I get Warren's comments te Newcastle,  but they have been decimated with injuries and have a super high pressure schedule.  They are draining late in games, understandably.   Do we actually only have 4 injured currently? Jones, Wilson,  Thomas and Clark  I've probably forgotten some?  If it is only 4, that is probably less than other clubs? All clubs have injuries/ suspensions.

I agree, Crosby's comments had the pungent smell of BS.  Perhaps doing him no favours there,  but he didn't do himself any either imho

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Loggerheads Sage
Addition

[Loggerheads Sage]

Someone joked that all this following of the science is like the covid pandemic/enquiry.  It got me thinking,  it is ver y much like it. The scientists had differing views on what to do at certain times, but all of them were only concerned with controlling the pandemic.  The government had to look at an even bigger picture,  eg  the economy, what the public would accept etc.

Here we have the sports scientist,  1 might say 45 minutes,  another might say 60 minutes,   their opinion/advice.  They are only concerned with the player and the likelihood that he will break down.  The manager should be looking at the bigger picture of the clubs needs.  

Obviously the advice should be taken on board certainly,  but it shouldn't be set in stone

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, Loggerheads Sage said:

Someone joked that all this following of the science is like the covid pandemic/enquiry.  It got me thinking,  it is ver y much like it. The scientists had differing views on what to do at certain times, but all of them were only concerned with controlling the pandemic.  The government had to look at an even bigger picture,  eg  the economy, what the public would accept etc.

Here we have the sports scientist,  1 might say 45 minutes,  another might say 60 minutes,   their opinion/advice.  They are only concerned with the player and the likelihood that he will break down.  The manager should be looking at the bigger picture of the clubs needs.  

Obviously the advice should be taken on board certainly,  but it shouldn't be set in stone

The parallel is perfect.

Weak leader, given advice which he needs to put into the context of a bigger picture. Hides behind the science, and says the clever boys made me do it

[LancyTony]

On 12/12/2023 at 22:40, boslemportvale91 said:

I remember calling askey out and you dragged out the discussion for nearly 3 pages defending him when we we're terrible and 18th in league 2 and nearing relegation

With the greatest of respect of lancy. You're the last person I want to have a debate with. I envy you because you're a half full glass kind of person and I wish I had that optimistic and positive outlook 

But I'm just giving my opinion as is everyone who is entitled. 

I wish you nothing but respect and happiness my friend but I've been down this rabbit hole before and I'm not doing it again 

 

Thanks for the respect shown! Yes, I am a glass half-full person, and i look for the positives in anything. Having brought up 4 kids, and with 2 grandkids i believe there is too much negativity in the world and, maybe, things would be a bit better if we were all more positive.

However, having read several pages where I never knew Port Vale had so many medical and scientific experts in their midst, discussing sports science, whilst sharpening their pitchforks ready to attack the monster in the windmill - even I decided to stay clear of that one as it will, clearly run for a while! 

 

[Lornelounger]

So, to sum up....

It's all rubbish, see that, it's rubbish, that's rubbish as well, and that...

Or

You know that football right, it's brilliant! Everything's great.  What it is right, is blokes kicking a ball around - Brilliant!

I'm somewhere in the middle I think, but a win today would be very helpful (cue comments about papering over the cracks).

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Lornelounger

[Brian Johnson]

21 minutes ago, Lornelounger said:

 

I'm somewhere in the middle I think, but a win today would be very helpful (cue comments about papering over the cracks).

 

 

 

 

 

and if we do not win?