Where do we go from here?

[JoeB2]

3 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

One the one hand we're on a bad run because we've failed to address a long-running issue; the durability of our strikers. When a team loses games, fans tend to get annoyed, and rumours fly (although some, not all, I've read on here are 100% true.) When/if the strikers are fit, we should meander comfortably to mid-table. The issue needs sorting long-term, mind, as it has put a dent on what was a very promising season. If we win on Tuesday, we all calm down and go on to finish 14th.

On the other, I'm not sure long-term it's quite as rosy as people think. Running a football club is very difficult and the people who run the club, as fantastic as they've been (the best we've ever had), are not infallible. They've made mistakes before - John Askey's overly slow departure, for example.

There's been a fairly noticeable departure of senior figures in recent months, including the Communications Director, Stadium Manager, a key bloke in the foundation (Tom?), head of the media team, (Luke, was his name?) and long-serving groundsman. This is undoubtedly strange, for so many key people to depart within 6 months of each other. Did they all decide to leave for pastures new at the same time? Was it financial? Were there professional differences?

The lack of fanfare at Speedy's departure, after 30 years of service, was stark. 

I do think there's some short-term overreaction to some poor results and performances, but also some glossing over the fact that being 'Championship Ready' in any sense is a long, long way away at the minute. 

There's a fairly big summer coming. The squad will be overhauled and the budget will have to be looked at if the physical issues of Vale Park are to be addressed. The task for the management, if they decide to stick around, is to square the circle in progressing the club whilst likely not having any extra money to do so, on an atrocious playing surface and in a ground which demands millions of pounds for upkeep. If you're Clarke/Crosby, knowing this, other clubs suddenly look more appealing.

To try and bring this ramble together, my long-held view is that Port Vale, runs self-sufficiently and efficiently, can achieve mid-table League 1 - where we are now. Anything beyond will require a) external investment or b) a miracle season by an inspirational management team and group of players. This is the juncture we're currently at, imo.

Too long, didn't read (don't blame you):

I think the club has hit its natural ceiling without further investment. The ground and pitch will stop any substantial investment into the playing squad. All the key staff have left. 

[Boslem's Brazil]

57 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

The club has always needed new investors. Certainly more likely to get someone on board with the way the club is being run than how it was. 
 

Just imagine, trying to bring in investors with Smurfwaite around. 
 

Bratt tried too if I recall with things like Hank Julicher and that turf company “where’s the beef baby” was one memorable comment alongside when asked about putting £2 million in, he was even more blunt “you’d have to be mad or on drugs”, to consider doing it. 
 

Yet now surely things are different. That 2 million would, if invested, easily push us towards the Champ. 

£2m would easily push us towards the Championship??? Carol must have spent at least £2m alone in the close season which was reported (£1.4m on the ground and £1m on the playing budget).

Of course we wouldn’t say no to a £2m cash injection, but we need a damn sight more than that to get our squad and ground Championship ready. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

19 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Too long, didn't read (don't blame you):

I think the club has hit its natural ceiling without further investment. The ground and pitch will stop any substantial investment into the playing squad. All the key staff have left. 

Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration?

[butt lane vale fan]

Tbf to people on this thread, I don't see the fact fans want to see investment as moaning. Its clear as day that to go any further and to be able sustain Championship football and not look out of place, Carol will need to be open to allowing others onboard. Of course we all want a club to support for years to come, but we also don't want to just plod along for the rest of time, yoyoing between L1 and L2. 

That's far from a moan

 

[Smallthorne clampet]

41 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

One the one hand we're on a bad run because we've failed to address a long-running issue; the durability of our strikers. When a team loses games, fans tend to get annoyed, and rumours fly (although some, not all, I've read on here are 100% true.) When/if the strikers are fit, we should meander comfortably to mid-table. The issue needs sorting long-term, mind, as it has put a dent on what was a very promising season. If we win on Tuesday, we all calm down and go on to finish 14th.

On the other, I'm not sure long-term it's quite as rosy as people think. Running a football club is very difficult and the people who run the club, as fantastic as they've been (the best we've ever had), are not infallible. They've made mistakes before - John Askey's overly slow departure, for example.

There's been a fairly noticeable departure of senior figures in recent months, including the Communications Director, Stadium Manager, a key bloke in the foundation (Tom?), head of the media team, (Luke, was his name?) and long-serving groundsman. This is undoubtedly strange, for so many key people to depart within 6 months of each other. Did they all decide to leave for pastures new at the same time? Was it financial? Were there professional differences?

The lack of fanfare at Speedy's departure, after 30 years of service, was stark. 

I do think there's some short-term overreaction to some poor results and performances, but also some glossing over the fact that being 'Championship Ready' in any sense is a long, long way away at the minute. 

There's a fairly big summer coming. The squad will be overhauled and the budget will have to be looked at if the physical issues of Vale Park are to be addressed. The task for the management, if they decide to stick around, is to square the circle in progressing the club whilst likely not having any extra money to do so, on an atrocious playing surface and in a ground which demands millions of pounds for upkeep. If you're Clarke/Crosby, knowing this, other clubs suddenly look more appealing.

To try and bring this ramble together, my long-held view is that Port Vale, runs self-sufficiently and efficiently, can achieve mid-table League 1 - where we are now. Anything beyond will require a) external investment or b) a miracle season by an inspirational management team and group of players. This is the juncture we're currently at, imo.

Bang on the money .

[Fosse69]

Tbf to people on this thread, I don't see the fact fans want to see investment as moaning. Its clear as day that to go any further and to be able sustain Championship football and not look out of place, Carol will need to be open to allowing others onboard. Of course we all want a club to support for years to come, but we also don't want to just plod along for the rest of time, yoyoing between L1 and L2. 
That's far from a moan
 

We can't rely on a stream of investors, the business has to grow, the home attendance has to grow to at least 10,000, player development has to grow, and we can't keep buying players. There is a lot of work to do to stay in the Championship should we get there unless the structure of EFL changes.

[Biddulph_PV]

The ground is now becoming a millstone. I’m sure I heard not so long ago that the Railway Stand had effectively been condemned and that was one of the reasons for looking at the Hamil move, as it would have to be closed. 

[Breadwinner]

People talk about investment like its the easiest thing in the world to do .
The shanahans have saved our club and they may need some help moving forwards .
I will and am like all proper Vale loyal followers (supporters)will be eternally grateful for what they have achieved in a relative short space of time .
However we can not stand still so if there are folk out there who can take the club forwards alongside the passionate shanahans then please come forwards .
Rumours come and go the best way quash them is by the players level of performance getting better but for me it's like we playing Walsall every week at the moment we seem so lifeless especially when Politic and Butterworth leave the field ok Conlon and Proctor got us on the front foot for about 10 mins maximum then they faded .
Cannot put me finger on it but there's something up .
If cash is king to footballers then if we are experiencing financial difficulties I don't suppose playing abject is going help the overall attendances and desire for the fans who come v Swindon or Wembley to come often if at all .
The responsibility is with the players how you can go from collectively excellent v Plymouth to the shambles of the live TV game and last 10 v Derby and last 15 v Wycombe is going from sublime to ridiculous .
The team do not show any desire to score .
Corner kicks no desire wheres John Mccombe when you need him ,floated free kicks around the box a statue could move quicker .
Do they ever take free kicks quickly .
All to slow
Smith jogs forward passes it 10 yards to someone thats not good play oh for a Gibbons a player who flew at teams regularly but another who spent more time on treatment table than on the pitch (I bet they all got there own tables for f sake man up and get on the pitch ).
UTV

[Smallthorne clampet]

20 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

35 minutes ago, butt lane vale fan said:

Tbf to people on this thread, I don't see the fact fans want to see investment as moaning. Its clear as day that to go any further and to be able sustain Championship football and not look out of place, Carol will need to be open to allowing others onboard. Of course we all want a club to support for years to come, but we also don't want to just plod along for the rest of time, yoyoing between L1 and L2. 
That's far from a moan
 

We can't rely on a stream of investors, the business has to grow, the home attendance has to grow to at least 10,000, player development has to grow, and we can't keep buying players. There is a lot of work to do to stay in the Championship should we get there unless the structure of EFL changes.

9,174 was the highest ever average attendance in the championship , you cant wait forever for players to develop , Newcastle utd are now heading for the champions league because of new investment. Regarding buying players , you have to buy quality - I remember picking up the sentinel and seeing we had signed Dean Glover for £200,000 and thinking it was a mis-print ! Bill Bell took a calculated risk when he started buying big , but it got us 10 years in the championship , and the best football ever seen at vale park (with a little help from John Rudge ) The other 50 years of my support has seen us alternate between the bottom two divisions . There is no shame as to where we are now , the owners have given us our pride back , we have a great club . The question asked is "where do we go from here ?" . Well you either do a "Billy Bell" or a "Norman Smurthwaite"          

[smithie]

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

When a team loses games, fans tend to get annoyed, and rumours fly (although some, not all, I've read on here are 100% true)

Which are 100% true? What's the problem with telling everyone?

[valerule4ever]

In terms of on the pitch, we again seem to have far too many players who cannot be relied upon to play week in week out, other than Smith, Garrity, Worrall & Benning the rest seem to constantly be picking up niggles or being rested, Are the management team over thinking it and putting to much thought into fitness and rotating too much I wonder or are the players just too injury prone again? Look at yesterday where was Lewis Cass, goes from starting to vanishing from the squad? Was there the need to make the 3 subs and change 2 defenders, it cost us against Derby and didn’t help again yesterday as those coming on are not as good. We need a settled back three as all this constant chopping and changing before and during games is not helping, I also think we will badly miss Connor Hall.

[Fosse69]

5 minutes ago, Smallthorne clampet said:

9,174 was the highest ever average attendance in the championship , you cant wait forever for players to develop , Newcastle utd are now heading for the champions league because of new investment. Regarding buying players , you have to buy quality - I remember picking up the sentinel and seeing we had signed Dean Glover for £200,000 and thinking it was a mis-print ! Bill Bell took a calculated risk when he started buying big , but it got us 10 years in the championship , and the best football ever seen at vale park (with a little help from John Rudge ) The other 50 years of my support has seen us alternate between the bottom two divisions . There is no shame as to where we are now , the owners have given us our pride back , we have a great club . The question asked is "where do we go from here ?" . Well you either do a "Billy Bell" or a "Norman Smurthwaite"          

Glover was bought to clinch promotion 3 seasons after promotion, we are only in our first season in Tier 3. Did not the money come from selling Andy Jones a player we had developed?

[Brian Johnson]

12 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Glover was bought to clinch promotion 3 seasons after promotion, we are only in our first season in Tier 3. Did not the money come from selling Andy Jones a player we had developed?

Dean Glover was brought in to cement our push for promotion back into the old version of the Championship after not playing in the that division for 32 years

[Quebec_Valiant]

15 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Glover was bought to clinch promotion 3 seasons after promotion, we are only in our first season in Tier 3. Did not the money come from selling Andy Jones a player we had developed?

I don't think it was the Jones Money.  We sold Andy Jones in 87 and he came back on loan in 89.  He made his return at the same time that Glover was signed (the same week ahead of the Wolves game).

 

[Brian Johnson]

Just now, Quebec_Valiant said:

I don't think it was the Jones Money.  We sold Andy Jones in 87 and he came back on loan in 89.  He made his return at the same time that Glover was signed (the same week ahead of the Wolves game).

 

We sold Andy Jones a couple of seasons before we brought Dean Glover.

I believe the money from Dean Glover came from the sale of a Vale training ground up near Cobridge somewhere