May on the way??

[For Us All]

12 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

😂

You are literally calling Johnsons DEMONSTRABLY TRUE statement a lie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

You've got absolutely no chance.

 

 

It seems the Remainers want to ignore court rulings now?

Where's Gina Miller when you want her?😀

[Jacko51]

So if the £350 million gross to the EU was not a lie, does that mean there will now be  £350 million a week  available for the NHS as the bus claimed?? 

[Jacko51]

Incidentally, has anyone heard anything so bloody stupid as this?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jul/07/brexiters-boycott-ode-to-joy-at-three-choirs-festival

[geosname]

5 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

So if the £350 million gross to the EU was not a lie, does that mean there will now be  £350 million a week  available for the NHS as the bus claimed?? 

We ain't out Jean.. even if it's available it doesn't mean they will get it

[geosname]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Incidentally, has anyone heard anything so bloody stupid as this?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jul/07/brexiters-boycott-ode-to-joy-at-three-choirs-festival

Lot of numbnuts about...... as an anthem maybe as a piece of music idiotic.

[Jacko51]

6 minutes ago, geosname said:

We ain't out Jean.. even if it's available it doesn't mean they will get it

Are you saying it was a lie??

[For Us All]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:34 PM, ginge said:

Conservative Party members being investigated for Islamophobia can vote for the next prime minister

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-03/conservative-party-members-being-investigated-for-islamophobia-can-vote-for-the-next-prime-minister/ 

Christian persecution on the agenda now and about time?

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Are you saying it was a lie??

Depends what was said

[Fosse69]

What was the motive behind the latest leak from this government?  Was it to embarrass Hunt or provide a job vacancy for Farage?

[Regal Beagle]

4 hours ago, TheSage said:

I wish you'd stop rewriting history and use a bit of common sense.

As I said before, that message was a deliberate cynical attempt to manipulate public opinion into believing that we pay in far more than we do in reality and that this inflated sum could be readily used to boost the NHS. It's deception. It's a lie. 

Everyone knows it's a lie and no-one was daft enough to even try and refute it until the court case the other week when we had all this nonsense about gross and net. Do me a favour. What a load of cobblers. What a pathetic attempt to try and justify the big lies on the side of the bus. But the main theme behind the judgement was that politicians do tend to make false statements and embellish things at times like these and if it was taken further it would open a can of worms and could end up becoming silly as hundreds of MPs might end up before the bench. So it was dropped.

The actual figure that we pay in annually varies a lot from year to year but recently has been of the order of £150-170 million a week. Less than half the inflated fairy story on the side of the bus!

And last year a study by King's College London found that even in 2018, 42% of people who had heard the claim still believe it to be true, despite it being a myth. 

The figure does not take into account (a) the rebate we've had since 84 (thanks to Mrs. T). That's deducted before we send any payments. And's that usually about £4.5-4.6 billion.

And then there's (b) EU payments to the UK public sector through subsidies and development money. That's about £4.1 billion.

But we haven't finished there. There is also (c) EU money to private institutions like universities for scientific research. Another £1.5 billion.

So, the £18 billion on the side of the bus is a complete red herring and exaggerated out of all proportion in a deliberate, cynical attempt to bend the truth. The real figure is between £8-9 billion but as I say it varies a bit from year to year.

Critics will still say that £8-9 billion is a lot of money. But it's actually only about 0.37% of our GDP and is a tiny amount of our annual spending. For example, we spend more on overseas aid. So in the round it's a small sum to pay to give us access the world's best free trade area and single market, to and from which the best part of 50% of our trade comes and goes, is worth £280 billion a year, and up to 3 million jobs. No alternative economic model can match that. It will necessarily be inferior economically because we have had it so good since 73.

Here is the latest official House of Commons report:

file:///C:/Users/Nick/Downloads/CBP-7886.pdf

 

 

Cant access the pdf. 

I've provided plenty of evidence it wasnt a lie. It was refuted years ago and I'd posted on here that it wasnt a lie.

 

What are your thoughts on the EU link I posted which shows that the figures are actually too small if anything? 

 

[Jacko51]

Re whether or not the bus was true or false - Response from "Sir Nige" on the morning after the referendum when asked if the money for the NHS was now guaranteed: “No I can’t [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made,”

So "Sir Nige" said the claim on the side of the bus was wrong.  Perhaps it's him who's telling the lie??

[Paul6754]

3 hours ago, For Us All said:

It seems the Remainers want to ignore court rulings now?

Where's Gina Miller when you want her?😀

Th court ruling did not exonerate Johnson from telling the bus lie in any way shape or form, the court appearance did not go ahead because the High Court said it's not uncommon for politicians to lie or words to that effect.....a very sad state of affairs for UK democracy or lack of it.

[TheSage]

RB, your quotes from that document were mistaken/wrong.

You said, "In 2015 the UK contributed €18.21 billion to the EU budget (after a rebate of €6.08 billion) and also collected €4.27 billion in customs and farm trade duties on the EU's behalf, of which it retained 25%, as an administrative fee."

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/budgetataglance/default_en.html#united_kingdom

As far as I can see it actually says, "In 2017 the UK contributed €10.58 billion to the EU budget (after a rebate of €4.94 billion), and also collected €3.97 billion in customs duties on the EU's behalf, of which it retained 20%, as an administrative fee."

I can't see any other figure but it does vary from year to year.

The file that would not open is the latest document from the House of Commons library, for 2019. It's a briefing paper by Matthew Keep and, as I say, is this year's figures. It tallies with the correct version of the other document (though that's from 2017) and  backs up my quote above so I don't know where you get your figures from. 

I'm not denying there are legitimate reasons why some folk want to leave but claiming that the words on the bus were true is complete nonsense. Johnson knows about the rebate. He knows about the money we get back from the EU. He knows it costs us less than 0.5% of our GDP. He knows that most people don't operate in abstract impractical gross sums. It was a deliberate attempt to deceive people.

But I'll leave it there. I'm not keeping on flogging a dead horse. The facts are there for everyone to make their own judgement. And the boredom threshold must be sky high by now!

 

[For Us All]

4 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

So if the £350 million gross to the EU was not a lie, does that mean there will now be  £350 million a week  available for the NHS as the bus claimed?? 

No,it actually works out at at £384m a week now that the Maybot has promised £20bn a year.

[ginge]

On 7/7/2019 at 12:18 PM, Howjy04 said:

Panorama,Wednesday July 10th.Enjoy.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with my post.

And programmes about racism or antisemitism should not be enjoyed.