May on the way??

[Regal Beagle]

13 hours ago, Heatwave said:

Can you explain which lies the Remainers told?

Well no because there is so many of them that it would be impossible to list, but I did create a useful list of SOME remainer lies a few months ago on this website (I wasn't sure if the post worked though as no one ever replied to it funnily enough).

 

George Osbournes claim that every house in Britain will be £4,300 worse off if we vote leave?

How about his claim that we would need an emergency budget upon voting leave?

How about the vast majority of economic predictions made by the treasury upon a leave vote being returned?

The union breaking up? That was a lie

A hard irish border or a reversal of the good friday agreement? That was a lie

How about the Cameron/Obama threats that we'd be at the back of the queue for a trade deal? lie.

Brexit caused a spike in crimes against non UK nationals? lie.

Nick Clegg saying that the result will be final and must be respected? lie

The leave side were brainwashed by lies? lie

We didn't know what we voted for? lie

Leave is in anyway linked to racism? lie

Nick Clegg's claim that an EU army was a dangerous fantasy - lie

Job losses as a result of a leave vote? - lie

The UK is sovereign already - lie

The UK can manage our own immigration policy inside of the EU - lie

Brexit recession as a result of a leave vote? - lie

Brexit voters are uneducated - lie

Brexit is damaging to young people - lie

A second referendum would change the result - lie

A second referendum is not undemocratic - lie

We have no leverage in negotiations - lie

The EU are laughing at us - lie

The EU is not undemocratic - lie

Brexit voters want to kick out foreign NHS workers - lie

[Regal Beagle]

I can officially add another remainer lie to that list....

 

-Bories lied about the amount of money we send to the EU on the side of his bus - conclusively proven to be a factually correct statement (actually low balled by Boris if we're being picky) and so this is another remain lie.

[Howjy04]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:34 PM, ginge said:

Conservative Party members being investigated for Islamophobia can vote for the next prime minister

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-03/conservative-party-members-being-investigated-for-islamophobia-can-vote-for-the-next-prime-minister/ 

Panorama,Wednesday July 10th.Enjoy.

[Paul6754]

6 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Well no because there is so many of them that it would be impossible to list, but I did create a useful list of SOME remainer lies a few months ago on this website (I wasn't sure if the post worked though as no one ever replied to it funnily enough).

 

George Osbournes claim that every house in Britain will be £4,300 worse off if we vote leave?

How about his claim that we would need an emergency budget upon voting leave?

How about the vast majority of economic predictions made by the treasury upon a leave vote being returned?

The union breaking up? That was a lie

A hard irish border or a reversal of the good friday agreement? That was a lie

How about the Cameron/Obama threats that we'd be at the back of the queue for a trade deal? lie.

Brexit caused a spike in crimes against non UK nationals? lie.

Nick Clegg saying that the result will be final and must be respected? lie

The leave side were brainwashed by lies? lie

We didn't know what we voted for? lie

Leave is in anyway linked to racism? lie

Nick Clegg's claim that an EU army was a dangerous fantasy - lie

Job losses as a result of a leave vote? - lie

The UK is sovereign already - lie

The UK can manage our own immigration policy inside of the EU - lie

Brexit recession as a result of a leave vote? - lie

Brexit voters are uneducated - lie

Brexit is damaging to young people - lie

A second referendum would change the result - lie

A second referendum is not undemocratic - lie

We have no leverage in negotiations - lie

The EU are laughing at us - lie

The EU is not undemocratic - lie

Brexit voters want to kick out foreign NHS workers - lie

Regal, it's obvious you don't know the definition of a lie compared to a prediction.

A Lie is a false statement that is known to be untrue told with the intent to deceive, a prediction is an estimate of a future event or trend, i.e. a forecast. does the weather person tell lies or just gets the forecast wrong.

The stuff posted above are predictions or forecasts or petty, bland, drab, dreary statements. At least Johnson came out with a whopping lie which grabbed many peoples attention, he excels doing that.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, it's obvious you don't know the definition of a lie compared to a prediction.

A Lie is a false statement that is known to be untrue told with the intent to deceive, a prediction is an estimate of a future event or trend, i.e. a forecast. does the weather person tell lies or just gets the forecast wrong.

The stuff posted above are predictions or forecasts or petty, bland, drab, dreary statements. At least Johnson came out with a whopping lie which grabbed many peoples attention, he excels doing that.

If someone states it will happen it isn't a prediction..... it's a statement of believed fact..... which may or may not be a lie.

This is of course qualified with what preceeds the statement.

If a person makes a statement that this will happen knowing that it won't it is a lie.

[Fosse69]

16 minutes ago, geosname said:

If someone states it will happen it isn't a prediction..... it's a statement of believed fact..... which may or may not be a lie.

This is of course qualified with what preceeds the statement.

If a person makes a statement that this will happen knowing that it won't it is a lie.

Is saying more will happen knowing less is only possible also a lie? If saying the gross amount will go to the NHS knowing only the net amount will be available the lie? Or is it a qualified lie. 

[Regal Beagle]

6 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, it's obvious you don't know the definition of a lie compared to a prediction.

A Lie is a false statement that is known to be untrue told with the intent to deceive, a prediction is an estimate of a future event or trend, i.e. a forecast. does the weather person tell lies or just gets the forecast wrong. 

The stuff posted above are predictions or forecasts or petty, bland, drab, dreary statements. At least Johnson came out with a whopping lie which grabbed many peoples attention, he excels doing that. 

😂

You are literally calling Johnsons DEMONSTRABLY TRUE statement a lie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

You've got absolutely no chance.

 

 

[Regal Beagle]

5 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Is saying more will happen knowing less is only possible also a lie? If saying the gross amount will go to the NHS knowing only the net amount will be available the lie? Or is it a qualified lie. 

It's not a lie at all as has been conclusively evidenced in the past day or two.

[TheSage]

Give up, mate.

The bus was a blatant lie. He was deliberately falsifying the truth to persuade people to vote to leave.

He exaggerated the amount we pay in and knew full well that the same amount would not necessarily get spent on the health service if we left.

He is a blatant liar.

You can post a hundred times a day if you like but it still doesn't change the facts that the writing on the bus was a deliberate attempt to dupe people into believing that we pay in more than we do and all this money could and should be spent on the NHS instead.

He was telling porkies. You know it and we all know it. 

 

 

[geosname]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Give up, mate.

The bus was a blatant lie. He was deliberately falsifying the truth to persuade people to vote to leave.

He exaggerated the amount we pay in and knew full well that the same amount would not necessarily get spent on the health service if we left.

He is a blatant liar.

You can post a hundred times a day if you like but it still doesn't change the facts that the writing on the bus was a deliberate attempt to dupe people into believing that we pay in more than we do and all this money could and should be spent on the NHS instead.

He was telling porkies. You know it and we all know it. 

 

 

Won't argue with the single line paragraph....

From what i think I understand the gross amount we pay into the EU was 350m..... we get 100m in various rebates/returns so the net amount we pay in was 250m.

From what i can see the misconception/deception is based on the whole 350m being available to the NHS. 

[geosname]

8 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Is saying more will happen knowing less is only possible also a lie? If saying the gross amount will go to the NHS knowing only the net amount will be available the lie? Or is it a qualified lie. 

The first I would say yes.

The second.... the amount available is actually the gross amount.... on leaving the gross amount will not be paid to the EU  so is available to allocate wherever decided... was the statement the 350m WILL go to the NHS or a broader IS AVAILABLE to the NHS? 

WILL is probably a lie, but only becomes a lie when not delivered.

AVAILABLE is not a lie unless any part of the total has already been allocated or spent.... which is difficult to decide as a future event.

Promising to spend is a future event, it becomes a lie when not delivered.

Available is also a future event, if it is available but not spent it is not a lie.

Depending on circumstances both could be a lie..... or neither.

[Paul6754]

5 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

😂

You are literally calling Johnsons DEMONSTRABLY TRUE statement a lie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

You've got absolutely no chance.

 

 

Regal, when the Johnson bus lie was first discussed your reply and main point was "All politicians lie" now it has changed to "He told the truth", even Johnson has admitted the 350m to the NHS was a lie, you're trying to defend the indefensible.

[Aussie Rules]

Meanwhile ladies and gentleman, girls and boys, whilst...

• the UK parliament is stymied to deliver Brexit, and
• the EU is struggling to protect its 'Sand Castle' from the stormy political seas, plus
• Mr Trump's preoccupation trying to put out the many 'political spot fires' beyond the shores of the US of A
• China meanwhile is quietly going about establishing trade and other relationships across Africa and the Pacific which includes
• a steady development of its interests in Australia and New Zealand which means
• the USA is in danger of losing its No. 1 role as the world's trade dealer/peace maker

 

•  

[Regal Beagle]

2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, when the Johnson bus lie was first discussed your reply and main point was "All politicians lie" now it has changed to "He told the truth", even Johnson has admitted the 350m to the NHS was a lie, you're trying to defend the indefensible. 

All politicians do lie.

That was before the high court ruled that it was truthful and I found a EU link which shows not only was it truthful it was actually a low estimate.

If you want to keep using this one then you are going to have to post some hard evidence to show that the EU and the high court are wrong.

Otherwise lets put it to bed? Move on, you've lost this one, you can cling to something else.

[TheSage]

I wish you'd stop rewriting history and use a bit of common sense.

As I said before, that message was a deliberate cynical attempt to manipulate public opinion into believing that we pay in far more than we do in reality and that this inflated sum could be readily used to boost the NHS. It's deception. It's a lie. 

Everyone knows it's a lie and no-one was daft enough to even try and refute it until the court case the other week when we had all this nonsense about gross and net. Do me a favour. What a load of cobblers. What a pathetic attempt to try and justify the big lies on the side of the bus. But the main theme behind the judgement was that politicians do tend to make false statements and embellish things at times like these and if it was taken further it would open a can of worms and could end up becoming silly as hundreds of MPs might end up before the bench. So it was dropped.

The actual figure that we pay in annually varies a lot from year to year but recently has been of the order of £150-170 million a week. Less than half the inflated fairy story on the side of the bus!

And last year a study by King's College London found that even in 2018, 42% of people who had heard the claim still believe it to be true, despite it being a myth. 

The figure does not take into account (a) the rebate we've had since 84 (thanks to Mrs. T). That's deducted before we send any payments. And's that usually about £4.5-4.6 billion.

And then there's (b) EU payments to the UK public sector through subsidies and development money. That's about £4.1 billion.

But we haven't finished there. There is also (c) EU money to private institutions like universities for scientific research. Another £1.5 billion.

So, the £18 billion on the side of the bus is a complete red herring and exaggerated out of all proportion in a deliberate, cynical attempt to bend the truth. The real figure is between £8-9 billion but as I say it varies a bit from year to year.

Critics will still say that £8-9 billion is a lot of money. But it's actually only about 0.37% of our GDP and is a tiny amount of our annual spending. For example, we spend more on overseas aid. So in the round it's a small sum to pay to give us access the world's best free trade area and single market, to and from which the best part of 50% of our trade comes and goes, is worth £280 billion a year, and up to 3 million jobs. No alternative economic model can match that. It will necessarily be inferior economically because we have had it so good since 73.

Here is the latest official House of Commons report:

file:///C:/Users/Nick/Downloads/CBP-7886.pdf