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Brexit again...

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I've been pointing out all that, Nofinikea, for several months but the problem is once you've been brainwashed by the press/social media/billionaire barons who control most of our news outlets then it's difficult to admit that you've been sold a pup. It's much simpler to con people than to get them to admit they've been conned.

I agree with you 100%. Social media played the most significant part in swinging the vote. But was it legal? Was it open and honest? Were expenses declared? Were users unaware of what was happening? Did on-line voters give their consent for their data to be sold on? The answer is "no". It's complicated and impossible to explain in brief but basically I think we all need to question if it's possible to hold a free and fair vote again. 

This leads on to the nub of the argument because people no longer can distinguish fact from fiction, truth from fake news. And as we've seen on here if the facts don't support my prejudice then it's project fear and I'll close down the debate that way because I refuse to discuss it with you in a rational manner. It's quite frightening really because once you deny the facts and blur the truth by misrepresenting reality, democracy is dead.

Channel 4, the Uncivil War, is instructive. As is the Great Hack if you have Netflix. So too the investigative journalism of Carole Cadwalladr. Look up CA, SCL, AIQ and Russian Prof Kogan. Read the House of Commons' parliamentary report on the misuse of data, Zuckerberg's refusal to give evidence and Cummings' found in contempt of Parliament.

Vote Leave (website conveniently closed down now), dozens of its campaigners, Leave.EU, Banks' firm, have all been found guilty of unlawful campaigning, illegal text spam, illegal advertising, failing to declare donations and on and on and on. Police investigations continue.

This was the kind of nonsense fired at people's Facebook accounts millions of times over in the 48 hours before the day of the vote.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Fake_news_evidence/Vote-Leave-50-Million-Ads.pdf

 

 

 

It's actually criminal that you even dare to post that brexiteers are trying to shut you down and refuse to talk rationally. 

Your post is complete and utter fiction sage. You've descended into make believe over the last few months.

It is quite worrying to be fair. 

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16 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Is that Big Jim who has been guilty of breaching loads of environmental pollution regulations?

That's the bloke.

Big Jim's investing £1bn in the UK's oil and chemical industries plus the the new car plant in Wales.

 

 

Edited by For Us All
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56 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Latest YouGov poll says that 48% of people prefer a no deal Brexit rather than Jezza as PM 35%.

And in the same poll, 52% said they would rather leave with May's deal and not have Corbyn as PM.

 

 

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On 11/08/2019 at 15:18, Andyregs said:

Well, unless he’s going to show me that the actual political editors of the bbc were tories and actually found to be biased against labour, then it’s irrelevant. Are you saying that a member of the Tory party and someone found to be biased against labour are actually politically biased against the right? 

What I'm saying is that a long-time Labour party member (and I therefore suspect neither a Tory nor right-leaning) was inside the BBC's leading political programme on radio and would therefore surely have had a pretty good insight on which to base his "left-wing bias" claim?  I think his judgment is almost certainly somewhat more objectiveand knowledgeable than yours?

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

And in the same poll, 52% said they would rather leave with May's deal and not have Corbyn as PM.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, For Us All said:

Latest YouGov poll says that 48% of people prefer a no deal Brexit rather than Jezza as PM 35%.

And as with every poll, the questions asked and the order of questions affect the answers, as does the sample size and sample.

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On 19/08/2019 at 18:36, Regal Beagle said:

It's actually criminal that you even dare to post that brexiteers are trying to shut you down and refuse to talk rationally. 

Your post is complete and utter fiction sage. You've descended into make believe over the last few months.

It is quite worrying to be fair. 

And where does that leave you?

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Quote, from the article "They hate Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn. They no longer trust the BBC. They love civil servants, legal experts and James O’Brien. And now, consumed by the battle against Brexit, hardcore remainers are no longer the moderates" although Remainers do argue and debate with reason based on facts and/or words/views from specialists, professionals and accomplished people in their respective fields whereas all Leavers base their views on is hope, belief and a p*ss and a p*ke.

Edited by Paul6754

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On 16/08/2019 at 12:24, Heatwave said:

I think it goes deeper than that - this is an existential crisis for the Conservatives and less so for Labour.

If Labour were to replace Corbyn with, say, Tom Watson then their crisis would be over. But the Conservatives can't and won't hang together under any leader. I suppose that means they'll hang separately.

Isn't Tom Watson still under pressure to resign after the Carl Beech fiasco?

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21 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Quote, from the article "They hate Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn. They no longer trust the BBC. They love civil servants, legal experts and James O’Brien. And now, consumed by the battle against Brexit, hardcore remainers are no longer the moderates" although Remainers do argue and debate with reason based on facts and/or words/views from specialists, professionals and accomplished people in their respective fields whereas all Leavers base their views on is hope, belief and a p*ss and a p*ke.

"They light up at any mention of the 2012 Olympics".

Is that because Boris was Mayor of London at the time?

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Since the 2017 election there have been over 100 polls and 87% of voters said remain was now the best option, 13% stuck to leave.

38 polls in a row have said that remain is the best option. The figure is solidifying and increasing all the time as voters see what a shambles it's become and how damaging it all is.

 

img86.jpg

Edited by TheSage
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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

Since the 2017 election there have been over 100 polls and 87% of voters said remain was now the best option, 13% stuck to leave.

38 polls in a row have said that remain is the best option. The figure is solidifying and increasing all the time as voters see what a shambles it's become and how damaging it all is.

 

img86.jpg

Which proves the EU theory....

If you keep asking you eventually get the answer you want.

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7 hours ago, TheSage said:

Since the 2017 election there have been over 100 polls and 87% of voters said remain was now the best option, 13% stuck to leave.

38 polls in a row have said that remain is the best option. The figure is solidifying and increasing all the time as voters see what a shambles it's become and how damaging it all is.

 

img86.jpg

The average of the 4 most recent polls is 52% remain 48% leave. I think you're confusing the data with the change voters .... where a majority of those who have changed their mind are now 87% leave and 13% remain.

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I stand corrected. Your interpretation is correct. Mine was incorrect. However the overarching point remains that since we've become more aware of the circumstances around the vote and of the consequences, especially of a No Deal, more are coming round to the view that it isn't such a great idea after all, as poll after poll is showing. Isn't it over 2 years ago since any poll showed a majority to leave? 

It's not about replicating what went on over 3 years ago but being better aware of the changing circumstances and being able as mature adults to re-appraise decisions made in the past. 

         95fcd51e2b8958cdff9b76a585ffa6048f7409ba            Related image                     Related image

           

It's funny how all the Cabinet can change their minds but won't allow the electorate to re-think theirs. 

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13 hours ago, geosname said:

Which proves the EU theory....

If you keep asking you eventually get the answer you want.

 

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 14:48, Jacko51 said:

And in the same poll, 52% said they would rather leave with May's deal and not have Corbyn as PM.

 

 

It's not suprising really,can he be trusted,who will he be supporting next week?

 

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