Brexit again...

[whotobeakiller]

British diseases for British people isn't a catchphrase that is likely to take off.

 

No i guess it would have to be approved through the EU like everything else

[Fosse69]

We can control our own diseases and not have to rely on other bureaucracies to do it. We have our own scientists and can work with universities and subsidise them directly to do so

 

Disease prevention need can potentially be reduced as leaving we see less immigrants bringing diseases in..people might not want to hear it but it's the truth!

 

I don't agree with using foreign cures and medicines, plenty of good English herb cures. If people were banned from taking foreign holidays it would prevent foreign diseases too.

[Heatwave]

Brexit won't affect immigration of skilled heart surgeons...next please

 

You say that but immigration of skilled people from the EU has gone into reverse even without us leaving - the mood music alone from the normally tolerant British people was enough to convince them that Britain was not the place to make their future.

 

Not that it matters much as immigration from countries like the Philippines and India will take their place. An unintended consequence that I think the Brexiteers didn't want.

[TheSage]

I also heard a interview by the professor in which he stated his team consisted of many foreign nationals which he deeply regreted because they had moved from their native countrys to work in the Uk, thus depriving these countrys of skilled surgeons. He in fact wanted to train up more Uk nationals to work in the NHS. I just suppose it can be spun either way to suit an agenda

 

We're talking about different things aren't we?

 

The point is that it takes about 16 years to train a heart surgeon and with so few British doctors at present we are very reliant on doctors from Europe and elsewhere. He thinks that Brexit will probably make things worse and he's worried.

 

We don't disagree on your point about the need for more British doctors but he reckons that people here don't want to be heart surgeons because of the pressure and the long training so we now have a scenario where 5 or 6/10 heart surgeons working here trained abroad, mainly in Europe, and there is no guarantee that they'll still want to come here after Brexit with more red tape and paperwork and all the anti-Europe stuff we see on a daily basis.

 

Make of it what you will but I don't think he's stupid.

[samspoons]

We're talking about different things aren't we?

 

The point is that it takes about 16 years to train a heart surgeon and with so few British doctors at present we are very reliant on doctors from Europe and elsewhere. He thinks that Brexit will probably make things worse and he's worried.

 

We don't disagree on your point about the need for more British doctors but he reckons that people here don't want to be heart surgeons because of the pressure and the long training so we now have a scenario where 5 or 6/10 heart surgeons working here trained abroad, mainly in Europe, and there is no guarantee that they'll still want to come here after Brexit with more red tape and paperwork and all the anti-Europe stuff we see on a daily basis.

 

Make of it what you will but I don't think he's stupid.

 

I dont think we are, just from a different angle. are you saying british surgeons cannot be bothered to train as heart specialists? Is it a failing of the british system ? I agree it is a worry but i do not agree brexit will make it worse , it is the uncertainty that is fueling the skill drain and the sooner this is addressed the better. At the end of the day european surgeons dont come for the love of the british people they come for the money and the expertise in our hospitals, and i dont see this changing.

[whotobeakiller]

I dont think we are, just from a different angle. are you saying british surgeons cannot be bothered to train as heart specialists? Is it a failing of the british system ? I agree it is a worry but i do not agree brexit will make it worse , it is the uncertainty that is fueling the skill drain and the sooner this is addressed the better. At the end of the day european surgeons dont come for the love of the british people they come for the money and the expertise in our hospitals, and i dont see this changing.

 

And paid at extortionate rates milking the public purse when we should be training up our own medical staff. And you wonder why people struggle to get treatments

[whotobeakiller]

You say that but immigration of skilled people from the EU has gone into reverse even without us leaving - the mood music alone from the normally tolerant British people was enough to convince them that Britain was not the place to make their future.

 

Not that it matters much as immigration from countries like the Philippines and India will take their place. An unintended consequence that I think the Brexiteers didn't want.

 

Anyone with an ounce of intellect would know the leave voters just wanted controlled immigration which would mean surgeons are pretty much at the top of the list for coming here as there are ridiculous skill shortages of British medical staff in the NHS...the government are to blame and the previous Labour government whom spent NHS money like it was going out of fashion

[Regal Beagle]

Regal, I'm not moving the goal posts at all, just trying to find out what you mean when you give one of the reasons to leave the EU as "Get our sovereignty back" which to me is a woolly reason, trying to get you to be more specific.

 

It's a valiant effort Paul but time to g8ve this one up. Literally not up for debate seen as it is 100% determined.

[Fosse69]

It's a valiant effort Paul but time to g8ve this one up. Literally not up for debate seen as it is 100% determined.

Sovereignty is a medieval concept for a nation, in a global world it is shared dependent on circumstances. We were told the EU had sovereignty over the colour of our passports, which was not true.

[Paul6754]

It's a valiant effort Paul but time to g8ve this one up. Literally not up for debate seen as it is 100% determined.

 

Your silence says everything.

[Heatwave]

Anyone with an ounce of intellect would know the leave voters just wanted controlled immigration which would mean surgeons are pretty much at the top of the list for coming here as there are ridiculous skill shortages of British medical staff in the NHS...the government are to blame and the previous Labour government whom spent NHS money like it was going out of fashion

 

I agree with you about the shortage of suitably trained British medical staff but the reason is more like the one which sees a lot of foreign players at Premier League clubs - it's easier to buy them ready formed from abroad than to train our own.

 

I don't agree with you about NHS spending though as governments of both colours used to spend what was required. It's the current bunch that cut funding dramatically in response to the financial crisis, despite saying that they wouldn't, and even though austerity is over (allegedly) they're not looking like they'll restore it.

 

Are you a spokesman for the Taxpayers Alliance by any chance? There would be a saving if public sector organisations didn't have to respond to their inane requests for publically available data.

[geosname]

The NHS has been in crisis for decades, you could throw millions at it and the chances are it would still be in crisis. There have been staff shortages for decades.

It's a pretty safe guess that if people are prepared to leave their home country to improve their lot in life they are prepared to move again for the same reason if another country is offering more.

It is fairly common for a country with a skill shortage to allow people with that skill set to top the entry list and to actively attract them.... we had the move of UK doctors to the USA not so long ago.... the brain drain?

[Davebrad]

The NHS is a sieve,not helped by drug companies charging what they want for their products ie AMD eye injections using LUCENTIS costing £1000 per injection, now the same company make Avastin initially I think for cancer treatment, but has been found as good or better than Lucentis and costs £10-30 per injection, but the drug company had a court case preventing the use of Avastin for anything but cancer and it lost, so NICE now has to approve its use...and charge non uk citizens has too many take the mick.

I think we originally joined the common market to help ourselves out of the post war austerity, the war had run down our infrastructure, we had rebuilding a plenty. Then the cm became the eu and we saw the butter mountains, wine lakes, Its a British trait that we don't like to be told to do things and spoken down too, especially by the French.

Immigration should be like Australia, Canada, a points system, headed by occupations and trades we need, and limited to immediate family, now this morning on the news their could be millions of refugees from Libya heading to Europe...

 

sorry for the long rant, just my view as a leave voter, and again if it comes to it...

[TheSage]

That aint a rant, Dave, by any stretch of the imagination. Take a look at the last few hundred pages!

 

I respect what you say even though I disagree with your conclusion. It's bit like an election isn't it? There are pros and cons with all parties [and with the EU] and you go with what you think overall is the best package.

[For Us All]

That aint a rant, Dave, by any stretch of the imagination. Take a look at the last few hundred pages!

 

I respect what you say even though I disagree with your conclusion. It's bit like an election isn't it? There are pros and cons with all parties [and with the EU] and you go with what you think overall is the best package.

 

Talking of rants,I've just watched the Tottenham MP on the Marr show where he was effectively saying Brexiteers are worse than the Nazis.

You couldn't make it up.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't a member of the public arrested earlier in the year for allegedly calling MP Anna Soubry the very same.

What's the difference,it seems to be all one way?