Brexit again...

[The_godfather]

When Jacob talks,everyone listens.

 

90% of people think he's talking utter, utter bilge, and the other 10% have got their heads in the sand, but they are all listening.

 

Tell me, what does it feel like to be played like a sweet, sweet violin?

 

To know that he is touching you in soft gentle strokes with his words - calm, and patient, soothing - telling you that you are about to enter a world of bountiful plenty.

 

That you will be balmed by the pleasures that await once we find true freedom. (Yadda yadda, Churchill, yadda yadda, vassalage, yadda yadda, a few more utter untruths).

 

All while knowing that each night, at home, he impatiently sits, waiting for March 30th, sharpening his blade.

 

Ready to metaphorically shank you.

And your family.

And your friends.

 

Does it feel good?

[Paul6754]

That's not the debate at all.

 

The point you were trying to make is that Brexit is not democratic because the leave side told lies.

 

I challenged you because whether or not lies were told, if the electorate vote for how they wish to be governed, that is the exact definition of democracy.

 

Honesty is irrelevant as to whether or not something is democratic, it simply is not part of the definition of democracy.

 

 

I have a further point that by claiming that the leave side are liars and the remain side are merely terribly at predicting anything, you are either deluded or dishonest.

 

I'm not denying that lies were told. I recognise that lies were told on both sides as they have been in every political campaign ever.

 

My biased opinion is that there were significantly more lies told on the remain side. If your biased opinion opposes that then we can agree to disagree, but to suggest that the result is tarnished because one side only were not playing fair is utter tripe.

 

Furthermore, you have had another dig at me there by trying to claim that I support lying and that means I don't mind lying myself. That isn't truthful whatsoever Paul and I'd ask you to provide a single scrap of evidence to support that but I know you will not find any.

 

Regal, It was absolutely the debate, the lies about 350m to NHS and reduction in immigration, you can spin it how you like.

 

We're going round in circles, there's no common ground.

 

[Paul6754]

It's a fact my friend, not simply an opinion, if you removed all the politicians who are not honest parliament would be populated by rats...... oh wait.

 

Geo, If your happy and content with politicians lying to you during elections, referenda or in Parliament than that's your prerogative.

[geosname]

Geo, If your happy and content with politicians lying to you during elections, referenda or in Parliament than that's your prerogative.

 

I didn't say I was happy with it mate..... I didn't suggest it was right.... I just recognise it as a fact and make decisions based on it and because of it.... it creates a puzzle, especially at election time, you know they lie but you don't know about what exactly so you look closer at what they promise you to buy your vote...

Everything has a cost, it depends on what we are prepared to pay to fulfil their promises and what they are prepared to sacrifice to deliver.

I'm unhappy about politicians lying..... but what upsets me more is politicians who don't believe what they say... I like Tony Benn and Moggy... not because I agree with them but because they believe in what they say and say it with passion.... sadly the party system discourages.

[For Us All]

90% of people think he's talking utter, utter bilge, and the other 10% have got their heads in the sand, but they are all listening.

 

Tell me, what does it feel like to be played like a sweet, sweet violin?

 

To know that he is touching you in soft gentle strokes with his words - calm, and patient, soothing - telling you that you are about to enter a world of bountiful plenty.

 

That you will be balmed by the pleasures that await once we find true freedom. (Yadda yadda, Churchill, yadda yadda, vassalage, yadda yadda, a few more utter untruths).

 

All while knowing that each night, at home, he impatiently sits, waiting for March 30th, sharpening his blade.

 

Ready to metaphorically shank you.

And your family.

And your friends.

 

Does it feel good?

 

Only in your opinion of course.

JRM4PM.

[Jacko51]

Only in your opinion of course.

JRM4PM.

 

Rees Mogg confirmed on QT last night that our economic growth in the years since the Eurozone was introduced has been at 44% - higher than the EU as a whole and higher than the USA. So what exactly is the problem when we can achieve this sort of growth inside the EU and can he guarantee that his will continue when we leave?

[whotobeakiller]

Rees Mogg confirmed on QT last night that our economic growth in the years since the Eurozone was introduced has been at 44% - higher than the EU as a whole and higher than the USA. So what exactly is the problem when we can achieve this sort of growth inside the EU and can he guarantee that his will continue when we leave?

 

Don't you think there will almost certainly be a vote in the future within the EU parliament to bring the UK in line with all Euro zone countries to stabilise the imbalances between countries..meaning we would at some stage be directed through voting of the other 27 countries into employing schengen and the Euro if we were stupid enough to stay in. The whole point of the EU is to combine all countries into one superstate and to bail each other out as and when appropriate

 

I'm afraid you cannot escape those basic concepts

[Jacko51]

Don't you think there will almost certainly be a vote in the future within the EU parliament to bring the UK in line with all Euro zone countries to stabilise the imbalances between countries..meaning we would at some stage be directed through voting of the other 27 countries into employing schengen and the Euro if we were stupid enough to stay in. The whole point of the EU is to combine all countries into one superstate and to bail each other out as and when appropriate

 

I'm afraid you cannot escape those basic concepts

 

The EU tried to get us in the Eurozone - we said no. They wanted us in Schengen - we said no. The EU could not force us into either of these and if they tried to in the future, we could just leave then. This was my argument from the very start when the referendum was first announced. If we vote Leave and it goes **** up we will never get back in on our current terms. If we vote Remain and it goes **** up, we just leave in the future. I cannot see how you can escape that logic.

 

What Rees Mogg said last night about the current rate of growth in the UK goes against all the stuff he's spouted about the EU holding us back as a country.

[Fosse69]

Don't you think there will almost certainly be a vote in the future within the EU parliament to bring the UK in line with all Euro zone countries to stabilise the imbalances between countries..meaning we would at some stage be directed through voting of the other 27 countries into employing schengen and the Euro if we were stupid enough to stay in. The whole point of the EU is to combine all countries into one superstate and to bail each other out as and when appropriate

 

I'm afraid you cannot escape those basic concepts

The fundamental concept of the EU is peace, the market is the glue, there will never be a superstate, each country will maintain their own parliaments. Sharing resources makes economic sense.

[whotobeakiller]

The fundamental concept of the EU is peace, the market is the glue, there will never be a superstate, each country will maintain their own parliaments. Sharing resources makes economic sense.

 

It might somehow make financial sense to you but not to thousands of workers undercut by your so called 'sharing' of labour. Most monies going back abroad and out of UK circulation. Paying child benefit to migrants whose family are back in Poland etc

 

Sorry I just don't see how that is 'sensible'. We don't need to be part of a superstate to have peace in the world or we would be at war with China or India. We just need a sensible consensus. The market is an invisible dictatorship and we are being held to ransom by it

[geosname]

The fundamental concept of the EU is peace, the market is the glue, there will never be a superstate, each country will maintain their own parliaments. Sharing resources makes economic sense.

 

They will maintain their own under EU rules and law........ thats a bit like saying.....

If I want your opinion I will give it to you.

[Jacko51]

It might somehow make financial sense to you but not to thousands of workers undercut by your so called 'sharing' of labour. Most monies going back abroad and out of UK circulation. Paying child benefit to migrants whose family are back in Poland etc

 

Sorry I just don't see how that is 'sensible'. We don't need to be part of a superstate to have peace in the world or we would be at war with China or India. We just need a sensible consensus. The market is an invisible dictatorship and we are being held to ransom by it

 

So how come our economic growth has been as great as Rees Mogg says? How are they holding us to ransom if we are doing better than the USA and the whole of Europe? It doesn't make sense.

[Fosse69]

It might somehow make financial sense to you but not to thousands of workers undercut by your so called 'sharing' of labour. Most monies going back abroad and out of UK circulation. Paying child benefit to migrants whose family are back in Poland etc

 

Sorry I just don't see how that is 'sensible'. We don't need to be part of a superstate to have peace in the world or we would be at war with China or India. We just need a sensible consensus. The market is an invisible dictatorship and we are being held to ransom by it

Enforce minimum wage. Child benefit laws are set by individual countries not the EU. I never said there would be a superstate. Sensible consensus with Trump and Putin and the Saudis?

[Fosse69]

They will maintain their own under EU rules and law........ thats a bit like saying.....

If I want your opinion I will give it to you.

It is up to the members of the EU to agree their relationships within the EU and where common practices are applicable, it would be very boring if all were the same.

[JohnJames]

The British Army are paid Kindergeld by the Germans at a greater rate than child benefit. Brexiters just latch onto one thing which matches their prejudices. There also millions of Brits living in the EU benefitting from reciprocal agreements on health and welfare.

Do some research. Jeez