Brexit again...

[Regal Beagle]

You'll have to explain yourself there Regal, yet another incoherent statement.

 

Who said anything about a "Silent majority or about a "Silent majority and polls", I doubt you understand what you post.

 

I don't know Paul, who did say something about polls......

 

 

That's not what the recent polls indicate.

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

 

And just because you don't understand something doesn't make it incoherent. Or do you use your own definition for incoherent as you do with democracy?

 

So we will benefit from Brexit, in what form?

 

Losing money on the Currency exchange.

People starting to lose their jobs in Car, Food and a lot of industries and this will get a lot worse.

Prices starting to rise.

And a whole load more.

 

But still we will have 350 million for the NHS and The fantastic trade deals that we will sign.

 

Think you need to look up the meaning of Benefit. Benefit my a... .

 

Sovereignty.

 

If the government simply cannot reach an agreement in Parliament on how we leave the EU, why is it tyranny to ask the people again how they want to progress matters??

 

We voted for brexit. Parliament voted for brexit and enshrined it in law.

 

Still confused on the types of referendum I see.

 

Nope, you've absolutely rinsed whatever point you are trying to make, the one we both agree one and doesn't even matter that was concluded on about 20 pages ago!

[Paul6754]

I don't know Paul, who did say something about polls......

 

I said something about polls, you said something about silent majority and silent majority and polls, do you even know or understand what you post.

 

And just because you don't understand something doesn't make it incoherent. Or do you use your own definition for incoherent as you do with democracy?

 

My and any dictionary definition of incoherent applies to your post(s) above.

 

However, your views on the democratic process and honesty gives an indication of the character and nature of your posts.

[Fosse69]

Parliament only voted to start negotiating withdrawal from the EU, if we cant get a good deal we can leave without one or stay in the EU, all to play for. We could even have a mandatory referendum.

[The_godfather]

Regal your sovereignty doesn't exist. It's a myth and a dream. Claiming it's more important than everything else would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it.

[whotobeakiller]

Regal your sovereignty doesn't exist. It's a myth and a dream. Claiming it's more important than everything else would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it.

 

Hi Yukon

 

Looking forward to independence and freedom?

[Essex Vale]

UK manufacturing has been in decline since at least the 1960's, before the UK joined the EU. There are a myriad of reasons for this, one being Thachers "Free Market" based policies and unwillingness to subsidize companies who were in trouble so successive UK governments must shoulder much of the blame.

 

Contrast this to the French and German governments who invested in their troubled companies to keep them afloat and to protect from hostile takeover so to provide jobs for French and/or German people. It's called Social Capitalism, they understand the economy provides the money for welfare and education etc.

 

The EU is not responsible for the decline of UK manufacturing, successive UK governments are.

 

That will be the reason more French people live in London than any other nationality but English. Of course the so called UK disease of the 60s, strikes, is now clearly the French disease. French business leaders are constantly berating their govt to reduce the burden of tax and bureaucracy on business. France produced more jihadis than any other country in Europe. France closes in August, no point being a tourist then. For the last few months every weekend sees yellow vest citizens complain about their govt. Brits trying to start businesses in France highlight prejudice, corruption and mindless red tape as major barriers. If the Macrons had been British he would have been referred to social services and she would have been sent to prison at the point their relationship started.

 

Overall, I think to say we should follow the French example plays into the hands of Brexiters.

 

Harold McMillan once said if we had lost two world wars and received substantial world financial aid, whilst being relieved of any responsibility for overseas territories, and being exempt from maintaing a military service then we might be as rich as Germany.

 

I voted remain but such ridiculous ill informed examples as you give add nothing to the current dire situation.

[whotobeakiller]

That will be the reason more French people live in London than any other nationality but English.

Part and parcel of the reason why rent prices are increasing in London tenfold and forcing most average Londoners away from the capital into poorer areas like Stoke on Trent.problem is it pushes up rent charges here. All roads lead to the money making EU

 

 

Overall, I think to say we should follow the French example plays into the hands of Brexiters.

That;s an understatement, At least working class french people are actually determined to do something about it. I suspect we haven't heard the last of Marine le Pen yet

 

Harold McMillan once said if we had lost two world wars and received substantial world financial aid, whilst being relieved of any responsibility for overseas territories, and being exempt from maintaining a military service then we might be as rich as Germany.

We aren't in a position to be as 'rich' as Germany simply because we are not as big as them. Another reason for not copying their ridiculous refugee model

 

I voted remain but such ridiculous ill informed examples as you give add nothing to the current dire situation.

 

To be fair he produces some good debates and information. He's not alone with remainder biased opinion. It's as if the last 30 years of chaos never happened

[Paul6754]

That will be the reason more French people live in London than any other nationality but English. Of course the so called UK disease of the 60s, strikes, is now clearly the French disease. French business leaders are constantly berating their govt to reduce the burden of tax and bureaucracy on business. France produced more jihadis than any other country in Europe. France closes in August, no point being a tourist then. For the last few months every weekend sees yellow vest citizens complain about their govt. Brits trying to start businesses in France highlight prejudice, corruption and mindless red tape as major barriers. If the Macrons had been British he would have been referred to social services and she would have been sent to prison at the point their relationship started.

 

Overall, I think to say we should follow the French example plays into the hands of Brexiters.

 

Harold McMillan once said if we had lost two world wars and received substantial world financial aid, whilst being relieved of any responsibility for overseas territories, and being exempt from maintaing a military service then we might be as rich as Germany.

 

I voted remain but such ridiculous ill informed examples as you give add nothing to the current dire situation.

 

The problems the French currently have are nothing to with their manufacturing sector which is what the discussion was about, the current problems are more to do with rising fuel costs, tax issues, immigration, Macron and his government. I did not say the UK should follow the French example, I just pointed to one of the reasons why the French have a larger manufacturing base than the UK, ie they protect and grow their key wealth and job creating businesses.

 

Take the French Pharmaceutical company Sanofi the 3rd largest in the world, other than Plavix I struggle to name another major selling drug discovered in France, how did they become larger than Novartis, Glaxo, Merck etc and who paid for it. France has 3 major car companies, more than the UK, all 3 or at least some have been propped up by French taxpayer money and probably continue to do so whereas the UK allowed most of it's car industry and jobs to disappear albeit after the government tried to prop it up for a period of time.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jan/21/car-industry-french-government-fears

 

The UK needs a strong mixed economy not one massively dependent on the City of London. So what did Harold McMillan think about the richest country in the world, America, which has some overseas territories and spends mega amounts of money on maintaining a military.

 

Nothing I post on OVF will "Add anything to the current dire situation" (I'm assuming that you mean Brexit and not the Vale) and I hate to tell you the same is also true of anything you or any other person posts on OVF.

 

So you don't appear to be very informed your self and you have preached more than once about people posting non-footie stuff on OVF, only when it suits you eh? and there's a word to describe that behavior.

[Essex Vale]

The problems the French currently have are nothing to with their manufacturing sector which is what the discussion was about, the current problems are more to do with rising fuel costs, tax issues, immigration, Macron and his government. I did not say the UK should follow the French example, I just pointed to one of the reasons why the French have a larger manufacturing base than the UK, ie they protect and grow their key wealth and job creating businesses.

 

Take the French Pharmaceutical company Sanofi the 3rd largest in the world, other than Plavix I struggle to name another major selling drug discovered in France, how did they become larger than Novartis, Glaxo, Merck etc and who paid for it. France has 3 major car companies, more than the UK, all 3 or at least some have been propped up by French taxpayer money and probably continue to do so whereas the UK allowed most of it's car industry and jobs to disappear albeit after the government tried to prop it up for a period of time.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jan/21/car-industry-french-government-fears

 

The UK needs a strong mixed economy not one massively dependent on the City of London. So what did Harold McMillan think about the richest country in the world, America, which has some overseas territories and spends mega amounts of money on maintaining a military.

 

Nothing I post on OVF will "Add anything to the current dire situation" (I'm assuming that you mean Brexit and not the Vale) and I hate to tell you the same is also true of anything you or any other person posts on OVF.

 

So you don't appear to be very informed your self and you have preached more than once about people posting non-footie stuff on OVF, only when it suits you eh? and there's a word to describe that behavior.

 

To say that fuel costs, tax ,immigration, bureacracy have nothing to do with manufacturing defies belief.

 

I.am not preaching I am answering your inaccurate examples. Why you think the USA is now relevant also escapes me.

 

You are right about why French manufacturing receives governments subsidies that is why there are so many of them. Oh sorry I forgot, tax has nothing to do with it you said. So you acknowledge the Franch govt make large subsidies from tax payers to prop up manufacturing but the reason why the French are protesting about high tax rates is nothing to do with it? That really challenges readers to locate your logic here. I suggest perhaps I am better informed than your peevish comments suggest.

 

This particular thread is titled Brexit so I replied on the basis of the title. If you can find and reproduce the threads you attribute to me please do so. I suspect you will find that you have misinterpreted. I note that the quote you produce above about adding to the situation is also inaccurate. I did not say you had nothing to contribute to the situation. I said the ridiculous examples you gave contributed nothing. Thete is a difference, a substantial difference

[Regal Beagle]

Regal your sovereignty doesn't exist. It's a myth and a dream. Claiming it's more important than everything else would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it.

 

It's not a myth or a dream though is it? Because we will be sovereign when we leave the EU which is currently enshrined in law and due to take place next month.

 

It is pretty important too.

[Regal Beagle]

I said something about polls, you said something about silent majority and silent majority and polls, do you even know or understand what you post.

 

Paul - WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

 

I don't care who mentioned what, neither do you, you are using this weird tactic to avoid answering any of my actual points.

 

My and any dictionary definition of incoherent applies to your post(s) above.

 

However, your views on the democratic process and honesty gives an indication of the character and nature of your posts.

 

My views of democracy and honesty are based on the literal definition of the words. Your views on democracy and honesty are based entirely on your own political leanings, which is not very democratic or honest in my opinion.

[The_godfather]

Hi Yukon

 

Looking forward to independence and freedom?

 

Not really.

 

I'm worried about my elderly parents, who, while they live in their own home, are not getting any younger and are not nearby for me to look after effectively.

 

I'm worried about my younger brother, who has a young kid, and lives month to month and who would be vulnerable if he lost his job.

 

On a more macro level, I'm worried that my country is a global laughing stock that will take the rest of my lifetime to recover, if at all.

 

I will absolutely fine myself. I can live in Australia or Canada, and benefit from the amazing new trade deals both countries will get with the UK.

 

But then I'm not really thinking of myself, and I'm not one of the 1 in 4 people in the country high enough on the fumes of self-determination to be exhilarated about something that is intangible, and unreachable, and will be a massive let down.

 

You might think you have all the answers, but while you can see everything that is wrong, and I actually agree with you on much more than I will ever be willing to admit, you're approaching everything from the wrong direction. And things will get worse, not better. Forget the economy for a second, as it's convenient to most of the rest of the time. Culturally, and socially, UK is going to be in a really, really dark place.

 

Oh, and listen up youth, check when I joined the site before claiming I'm someone else.

[Paul6754]

To say that fuel costs, tax ,immigration, bureacracy have nothing to do with manufacturing defies belief.

 

The point is about France having a larger manufacturing sector than the UK, tell me how fuel cost rises, tax ,immigration, bureacracy have contributed to that situation. The fuel tax rises were reported as Macron's left wing governments' attempt to mitigate against Climate Change, right or wrong?

 

I.am not preaching I am answering your inaccurate examples.

 

So Sanofi being the 3rd largest Pharma Company in the word and the French having 3 large car manufacturers is inaccurate is it, try reading.

 

Why you think the USA is now relevant also escapes me.

Well you made the statement about what McMillan said......, I'm just pointing out to you, as has WTBK, that size is also a major factor, hence the example of the USA which also spends on overseas territory and a huge military spend, get it now?

 

You are right about why French manufacturing receives governments subsidies that is why there are so many of them. Oh sorry I forgot, tax has nothing to do with it you said.

 

I said nothing of the sort.

 

So you acknowledge the Franch govt make large subsidies from tax payers to prop up manufacturing but the reason why the French are protesting about high tax rates is nothing to do with it? That really challenges readers to locate your logic here. I suggest perhaps I am better informed than your peevish comments suggest.

 

I didn't acknowledge anything I made the point about the French and the Germans subsidizing/incubating their critical manufacturing industries which provide jobs and tax revenues and this is one of a myriad of efforts which contribute to the preservation of their manufacturing base. The French are protesting at numerous issues.

 

You're belligerence, mis-informed comments and inability to comprehend don't support your protestations.

 

This particular thread is titled Brexit so I replied on the basis of the title. If you can find and reproduce the threads you attribute to me please do so. I suspect you will find that you have misinterpreted.

 

I suggest you look back yourself, at least one poster rebuked you.

 

I did not say you had nothing to contribute to the situation. I said the ridiculous examples you gave contributed nothing. Thete is a difference, a substantial difference

 

You posted, "I voted remain but such ridiculous ill informed examples as you give add nothing to the current dire situation", why you should wade in and post such bile is beyond me, The two examples I gave (I could quote others) show that my comments are not mis-informed. My point is that the people of the UK can't blame the EU for everything,successive UK governments not standing up for the UK should also be held accountable for the demise of the UK manufacturing base.

[Paul6754]

Paul - WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

 

I don't care who mentioned what, neither do you, you are using this weird tactic to avoid answering any of my actual points.

 

Regal, you don't know or understand what you post, read back.

 

My views of democracy and honesty are based on the literal definition of the words. Your views on democracy and honesty are based entirely on your own political leanings, which is not very democratic or honest in my opinion.

 

The debate was about the PROCESS of democracy, my view was honesty should be a part of the process, your view is it shouldn't. Once you realized your views were in effect sanctioning lying you tried to revert to the definition of democracy. If you don't mind being lied to then I suggest you don't mind lying yourself.

 

This conversation is degenerating, lets agree to disagree.

[Essex Vale]

Paul your points lack clarity, and analytical robustness. Your propensity to.immmediately resort to.personal insults illustrates the nature of your unacceptable approach. Your view that evidence equates to one person here issuing a rebuke about my posts is as far removed from evidence as it is possible to be. I refuse to engage further with You because you simply insult people who disagree with you. You seem to be a good fit for the project fear approach to which many ardent remainers attach themselves. Lo es terminado.