Smurf on the radio

[cheshirevaliant]

Certainly would be worth more as a Championship club, but that looks as far away now as it ever has done.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Agreed REP the club will be worth a lot more than he paid for it as a div 2 club out of admin than a Championship club hopefully on the up!!

 

You'd like to think so, get your tin hat ready Mr Carpet!

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Certainly would be worth more as a Championship club, but that looks as far away now as it ever has done.

 

Well no we are at least one vital step closer than when he bought the club.

[j_grainger10]

Certainly would be worth more as a Championship club, but that looks as far away now as it ever has done.

 

No it doesn't... have you forgot the state we were in 4-5 years ago.

[cheshirevaliant]

No it doesn't... have you forgot the state we were in 4-5 years ago.

 

Nope, I was there at Crawley the Saturday after we went into admin. From memory, we had a guaranteed 20 goal a season striker playing for us in Marc Richards, we had a defence that would provide the cornerstone to promotion the following year, we had players who, whilst maybe lacking in ability in some cases, certainly wouldn't have given some of the performances that we've seen away from home this year as they had pride in playing for PVFC. We owned our own ground, we had home and away gates higher than we have had this season, we had a manager who, again whilst not to everyone's taste, knew what he was doing in the league we were in. Maybe I've forgotten, but which bit, if any, of that is incorrect?

 

There were a lot of negatives in that period of course, but there was also an element of pride in the club. Much of that has been washed away over the past 4 or 5 years.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Wherever the money is coming from if its a loan there is debt.. there may be questions to ask if he is loaning money to one company and expecting repayment from another... if he doesnt expect repayment its not a loan its a gift... he could give it to the stadium and the club could borrow from the stadium but that still creates debt for the club/stadium.

Im not suggesting he has done something illegal... the statement was made that the club is debt free... if, like he said, smurf has made directors "loans" then it creates debt.

 

But that's my point has he loaned it to what we see as 'the club' or just to some company that is part of 'the club' or owns "the club". If he sells the "club" is he selling the bit that has the debt or part of it that does not in which case "the club" is debt free.

 

Yes there is a debt owed to him but it's not necessarily owed by the bit of "the club" that he might sell to a new owner of "the club".

 

Anyway, I've made my point regarding who owes the money.

[Jacko51]

For clarity, the Director's loan account is on the books of the football club and amounted to a little over £2.5 million at the last accounts. The next accounts have to be published by 31 March this year so they will show an update.

[geosname]

He's always said it will remain debt free, any money he puts in will not be owed when he leaves as the next owner will buy him out.

 

This ain't like loans owed to the council or some dodgy Gibraltan company.

 

You and a couple are being deliberely awkward as it's another stick to beat him with seemingly.

 

If he lies and he leaves debts then I will hate him too!

 

Any money put in is a loan if he expects it back, no matter when he expects it or how... thats the nature of a loan, thats why it is called a loan not a gift.

 

Written or oral agreement for a temporary transfer of a property (usually cash) from its owner (the lender) to a borrower who promises to return it according to the terms of the agreement, usually with interest for its use. If the loan is repayable on the demand of the lender, it is called a demand loan. If repayable in equal monthly payments, it is an installment loan. If repayable in lump sum on the loan's maturity (expiration) date, it is a time loan. Banks further classify their loans into other categories such as consumer, commercial, and industrial loans, construction and mortgage loans, and secured and unsecured loans.

 

There might be times when the company cash flow needs a helping hand from your personal funds, in the early days or if things are tight. When you do this you are making a loan to the business. If you put £1000 of your personal money into the company bank account, then you would also have £1000 owed to you by the company in the director’s account.

 

You don’t even have to be putting money into the company bank account to be making a loan to the business. If you have bought items for the company with your own money, then you have made a loan to the company and the value of the items would be recorded in the director’s account as money owed to you.

[Essex Vale]

I don't understand your point.. This is happening up and down the leagues and it shouldn't be a shock. Infact a lot of football clubs run in this manner. The chairman is investing his money in to the club and will want that money back when he leaves. Wouldn't you?

He plans to get us into the championship.. He is a lot more likely to get a return on his investment if he manages that so if he wants to spend his own money on trying to achieve that then so be it.. Its a risk to Norman.. If he decides it isn't working and sells up before that time then the chances of him getting back what he put in are slim.

I don't understand your issue.. It's just creating negativity for the sake of it.

 

 

My concerns are simple, we have a business model that is not financially sustainable. We are spending more than we earn. We have done that twice previously and gone into administration. My point is that if we happen to go into admin for a third time our status at that time will almost certainly be lost. I think I made that point perfectly clearly. I accept that many other clubs have similarly flawed business models, that does not mean we should not be concerned. When I first started watching Port Vale some of our rivals were Darlington, Halifax, Workington, Southport, Bradford PA, Stockport. I am keen to see that we do not go down their particular route.

 

We do not know the status of loans and how they are secured. We could be in the same situation that Brighton were in a few years ago where they are ejected from their ground because loans are secured on that property. I believe there may be some kind of agreement with the council that prevents that. I am simply asking for clarity around the status of the loans being made to Port Vale and if there are any caveats in place that prevent Port Vale from losing its major asset, its ground. I am not creating anything I am asking for a clarification about something that our Chairman has created. There may be some good safeguards in place, and if we had a CEO who was permitted to talk to the media then a club statement could easily clarify the legitimate concerns around the financing of Port Vale.

 

I agree your point about the Chairman's investment, I very much hope he makes a great investment and sells the club at a big profit in the future and we are debt free. In my earlier posts I have questioned some of the Chairman's decisions and actions which, on the face of it, seem to be barriers to him achieving his business objectives and not enablers to progress. Recent decisions have cost the club money, coincided with reduced gates and income, and fed into the concerns many people hold about the future. The paucity of sensible communication coming from the club magnifies these concerns.

 

I hope that explains in sufficient detail my issues.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Any money put in is a loan if he expects it back, no matter when he expects it or how... thats the nature of a loan, thats why it is called a loan not a gift.

 

Again he has always said he will leave the club debt free.

[sinnott2spinnit]

"When I first started watching Port Vale some of our rivals were Darlington, Halifax, Workington, Southport, Bradford PA, Stockport. I am keen to see that we do not go down their particular route.

 

Essex Vale....I can add, Chester, Wrexham, Torquay, York, and Lincoln to my list.

[valeparklife]

How do they unnecessarily over inflate the price' date=' without him putting money in we would have a much smaller budget, i'm all for the club living with its means but that's not football sadly nowadays.[/quote']

 

If the club is worth say £1.5m, that price may be attractive to a buyer.

 

If the club is worth £1.5m + £2m of loans, the total asking price will be £3.5m and put buyers off.

 

Smurf has "never lost money on a deal yet" so wouldn't be prepared to write this off.

[Howjy04]

Under SCMP rules a Director/Owner cannot loan money to pay wages.It has to be a donation.However if the Director/Owner wants to loan money for something else,e.g. new floodlights,making restaurant facilities better,spending money on the pitch etc he can do so by a director's loan.Smurf owns the club so in essence he is lending the money to the club/company he owns.No bank loans,dodgy Gib mortgages,unpaid shares etc.

[SuperValiant1876]

If the club is worth say £1.5m, that price may be attractive to a buyer.

 

If the club is worth £1.5m + £2m of loans, the total asking price will be £3.5m and put buyers off.

 

Smurf has "never lost money on a deal yet" so wouldn't be prepared to write this off.

 

And if someone bought it for 1.5m and weren't prepared to put money in to keep us running we would be in the conference quicker than you can say wasn't our old owner better.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

If the club is worth say £1.5m, that price may be attractive to a buyer.

 

If the club is worth £1.5m + £2m of loans, the total asking price will be £3.5m and put buyers off.

 

Smurf has "never lost money on a deal yet" so wouldn't be prepared to write this off.

 

So would you rather be in league 2 with a value of 1.5 million or league 1 with a value of 3.5 million. Speculate to accumulate.