Smurf on the radio

[geosname]

He isn't putting money in but he is putting money in!

 

He's always said the club will remain debt free, why are people making things up?

 

Again he has always said he will leave the club debt free.

 

Now make your mind up... remain debt free or leave the club debt free... which is it?

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Now make your mind up... remain debt free or leave the club debt free... which is it?

 

Remain debut free when he leaves

[geosname]

Under SCMP rules a Director/Owner cannot loan money to pay wages.It has to be a donation.However if the Director/Owner wants to loan money for something else,e.g. new floodlights,making restaurant facilities better,spending money on the pitch etc he can do so by a director's loan.Smurf owns the club so in essence he is lending the money to the club/company he owns.No bank loans,dodgy Gib mortgages,unpaid shares etc.

 

so there is debt

[rayzer]

And if someone bought it for 1.5m and weren't prepared to put money in to keep us running we would be in the conference quicker than you can say wasn't our old owner better.

 

The administrators were running the club before Smurthwaite came along. we were in the top two in the division and the administrators were running us at a profit.

[valeparklife]

And if someone bought it for 1.5m and weren't prepared to put money in to keep us running we would be in the conference quicker than you can say wasn't our old owner better.

 

The point is they wouldn't be able to buy it for £1.5m as they would also take on the debts of £2m.

 

I'd rather us stay debt free and avoid admin again and live within our means.

[valeparklife]

So would you rather be in league 2 with a value of 1.5 million or league 1 with a value of 3.5 million. Speculate to accumulate.

 

Why would we automatically be in league 2 without Smurf's director loans? The budget just needs to be used more efficiently and more sensibly. This £80k per month he keeps putting in would surely be avoided if we didn't have a squad of 35? He just keeps wasting money and it's frustrating as we could be doing good things this season.

[j_grainger10]

My concerns are simple, we have a business model that is not financially sustainable. We are spending more than we earn. We have done that twice previously and gone into administration. My point is that if we happen to go into admin for a third time our status at that time will almost certainly be lost. I think I made that point perfectly clearly. I accept that many other clubs have similarly flawed business models, that does not mean we should not be concerned. When I first started watching Port Vale some of our rivals were Darlington, Halifax, Workington, Southport, Bradford PA, Stockport. I am keen to see that we do not go down their particular route.

 

We do not know the status of loans and how they are secured. We could be in the same situation that Brighton were in a few years ago where they are ejected from their ground because loans are secured on that property. I believe there may be some kind of agreement with the council that prevents that. I am simply asking for clarity around the status of the loans being made to Port Vale and if there are any caveats in place that prevent Port Vale from losing its major asset, its ground. I am not creating anything I am asking for a clarification about something that our Chairman has created. There may be some good safeguards in place, and if we had a CEO who was permitted to talk to the media then a club statement could easily clarify the legitimate concerns around the financing of Port Vale.

 

I agree your point about the Chairman's investment, I very much hope he makes a great investment and sells the club at a big profit in the future and we are debt free. In my earlier posts I have questioned some of the Chairman's decisions and actions which, on the face of it, seem to be barriers to him achieving his business objectives and not enablers to progress. Recent decisions have cost the club money, coincided with reduced gates and income, and fed into the concerns many people hold about the future. The paucity of sensible communication coming from the club magnifies these concerns.

 

I hope that explains in sufficient detail my issues.

 

So why are you raising these questions now? How long have we had our current Chairman. He has made no secret of having to put 80K a month of his own money in. He has been saying it for as long as I can remember.. What will it be tomorrow??

We would all love a self sufficient football club.. Look at the other clubs in our league and tell me who is running their model like you suggest? A handful if that.

Before you start listing teams that we used to be on par with then you need to look at football and how it has changed! The money involved in the last 10 years alone is astronomical.

 

I spoke to my Mate who is a Bradford fan.. Mark Lawn ran Bradford as you are suggesting Norman is running us. He charged 10% on the loan. Have they gone bust? Have they fallen down the divisions. They overspent massively relying on a cup run. Luckily they got to the league cup final.

Its the same up and down the country. Don’t be naive.

 

Again... You are "looking" for reasons to have a go and I fully expect something else tomorrow.

[Howjy04]

so there is debt

 

Dunno.

[Howjy04]

For clarity, the Director's loan account is on the books of the football club and amounted to a little over £2.5 million at the last accounts. The next accounts have to be published by 31 March this year so they will show an update.

 

So there could be no debt? When were the last accounts published?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If the club is worth say £1.5m, that price may be attractive to a buyer.

 

If the club is worth £1.5m + £2m of loans, the total asking price will be £3.5m and put buyers off.

 

Smurf has "never lost money on a deal yet" so wouldn't be prepared to write this off.

 

Might get his money back thru the new owners having to rent Vale Park from him for ever and a day. What's the going monthly rate for it?

[geosname]

Might get his money back thru the new owners having to rent Vale Park from him for ever and a day. What's the going monthly rate for it?

 

Thats a big worry

[j_grainger10]

Thats a big worry

 

Jesus... Getting bombed by the Russians is a big worry. This made up scenario is not!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So why are you raising these questions now? .

 

Don't know about Essex vale but people have been raising these concerns ever since they heard about the loans..just what form do they take and what does it mean for PVFC?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Thats a big worry

 

I wouldn't worry about it

 

A) It might not/probably won't happen

2) Can't stop it if that's what he wants to do

[Essex Vale]

So why are you raising these questions now? How long have we had our current Chairman. He has made no secret of having to put 80K a month of his own money in. He has been saying it for as long as I can remember.. What will it be tomorrow??

We would all love a self sufficient football club.. Look at the other clubs in our league and tell me who is running their model like you suggest? A handful if that.

Again... Yu are "looking" for reasons to have a go and I fully expect something else tomorrow.

 

You seem to be suggesting that you are a mind reader by knowing what I am going to say or do before I know it! I agree that the Chairman has made no secret that he is putting in £80K per month, what does appear to be a secret is how this is structured. One possible scenario could be that at some point his money will run out or he will simply decide not to put in any more (I would not blame him if he chose not to put in any more money). If at that point the club is saddled with contracts and other outgoings agreed by the Chairman that exceed the income (minus the £80K contribution)then we would be insolvent and at real risk of administration if no buyer could be found. That scenario is highly likely if, as I think is the case, we are currently meeting our obligations only because the Chairman is putting in £80K per month.

 

Once we are technically insolvent there is a legal requirement to fold up the club. In terms of other clubs in our league, as far as I am aware none of them have twice before been in administration. That simple fact puts us at a much higher risk of losing our status if it happens for a third time. I am simply asking how the financial side of these loans is structured. The Chairman specifically said wait until Christmas then it is Plan B. The confusion that has arisen since then has prompted a number of people to ask sensible legitimate questions now which explains the timing of a deeper probe by genuine supporters. I like many others am also a former shareholder and supporter since the 1960s so my loyalty to Port Vale is not up for discussion.

 

I have never had a go at anyone associated with Port Vale and I resent your inappropriate and unacceptable assertion that I am looking for reasons to have a go. In fairness to other users of this website I think this should now be the end of this particular yo yo posting, there is nothing more that can usefully be added. I have answered your questions, you are free to take a different point of view that is the purpose of this splendid website.