Smurf on the radio

[JOHNNYAITCH]

He isn't putting his money in. He's putting his money in as directors loans.

 

With it being a loan he will want it back one day, and he can charge whatever interest he likes.

 

Big difference.

 

He's unnecessarily putting us into debt to himself.

 

Who owes him this money? Who will have to pay it back to him? I'm hoping the terms of the loan are already agreed

[valeparklife]

Who owes him this money? Who will have to pay it back to him? I'm hoping the terms of the loan are already agreed

 

The club!

[valeparklife]

So it's his money he's putting in then

 

He's not "putting it in", because he expects it to be returned.

 

It's not hard to understand is it?

[Essex Vale]

Don't make assumptions - I don't hate him just don't rate him as a chairman of a football club. Let me put it another way - if he walks away from the club and asks for the loans to be repaid then it is a debt that can only be repaid be selling off assets. Oh I forgot he owns the ground so we have few assets IF those loans were to be called in. Whichever way you want to spin it we owe him money!

 

I flagged up concerns around injection of capital or a director's loan on an earlier post last week or the week before. I was seeking some kind of re-assurance around the structure of the continuing debt being racked up by Port Vale. It is clear that we are not paying our way. We continue to have a bloated squad that is costing us money and we are struggling on the pitch despite the size and cost of our squad. We do not seem to be maximising opportunities for income generation off the pitch. We have twice gone into administration, would the football league or FA allow us to go into admin a third time but continue to play at our level? Somehow I think that is not so likely.

 

We really need to understand how the finances are working and if the Chairman is subsidising the club to the tune of approx £1 Million pa (as has been suggested elsewhere) on what basis is he making this funding available and for what period of time does he expect this to continue? I have previously asked for a strategic development plan to be issued. Such a plan would address these concerns and give a clear timescale for the on-going subsidy of the club.

 

It is not a case of hating the Chairman. I have written previously that I know he wants Port Vale to do well and that I think his heart is in the right place. Asking questions such as these are not indicative of lack of support they are valid questions around the future of our club. The current business model is unsustainable and the current, apparent, knee jerk decision making around the management of the team cannot inspire confidence as to a sustainable future for the club that is in my very DNA. The on-going method of communication and apparent lack of learning simply adds to my anxiety. I abhor some of the personal comments directed towards our Chairman, he does not deserve any of that vitriol. However, the points that are being raised are valid.

[valeparklife]

Then if he's including it as part of the asking price there is no debt when it's bought!

 

Christ people hate him don't they

 

But people won't buy because these loans unnecessarily over-inflate the price!

 

Christ some people would let him get away with murder

[geosname]

Then if he's including it as part of the asking price there is no debt when it's bought!

 

Christ people hate him don't they

 

Christ you talk some crap at times

He's always said the club will remain debt free

If there are loans to the club how can it possibly be debt free.... Ill give you a hint... its in the word "loan"... until its paid back its a debt

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Don't make assumptions - I don't hate him just don't rate him as a chairman of a football club. Let me put it another way - if he walks away from the club and asks for the loans to be repaid then it is a debt that can only be repaid be selling off assets. Oh I forgot he owns the ground so we have few assets IF those loans were to be called in. Whichever way you want to spin it we owe him money!

 

Who/What owes him the money?

 

Devil in the detail

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The club!

 

My point is which specific business or businesses owe him the money..he split the "club" from the stadium so what else has been done? Which specific business or businesses is he lending money to when we see him as lending money to the "club". Maybe I'm being too cynical (again)

 

I've been asking for months (years) just what form does his ongoing "investment" in the club take..if it's loans with the expectation of getting the money back then that's one thing, if he doesn't expect to get the loans back that's a different thing, is the stadium in some way collateral for the loans..I don't know and I suppose I have no right to know..but it would be nice if we did know.

[j_grainger10]

I flagged up concerns around injection of capital or a director's loan on an earlier post last week or the week before. I was seeking some kind of re-assurance around the structure of the continuing debt being racked up by Port Vale. It is clear that we are not paying our way. We continue to have a bloated squad that is costing us money and we are struggling on the pitch despite the size and cost of our squad. We do not seem to be maximising opportunities for income generation off the pitch. We have twice gone into administration, would the football league or FA allow us to go into admin a third time but continue to play at our level? Somehow I think that is not so likely.

 

We really need to understand how the finances are working and if the Chairman is subsidising the club to the tune of approx £1 Million pa (as has been suggested elsewhere) on what basis is he making this funding available and for what period of time does he expect this to continue? I have previously asked for a strategic development plan to be issued. Such a plan would address these concerns and give a clear timescale for the on-going subsidy of the club.

 

It is not a case of hating the Chairman. I have written previously that I know he wants Port Vale to do well and that I think his heart is in the right place. Asking questions such as these are not indicative of lack of support they are valid questions around the future of our club. The current business model is unsustainable and the current, apparent, knee jerk decision making around the management of the team cannot inspire confidence as to a sustainable future for the club that is in my very DNA. The on-going method of communication and apparent lack of learning simply adds to my anxiety. I abhor some of the personal comments directed towards our Chairman, he does not deserve any of that vitriol. However, the points that are being raised are valid.

 

I don't understand your point.. This is happening up and down the leagues and it shouldn't be a shock. Infact a lot of football clubs run in this manner. The chairman is investing his money in to the club and will want that money back when he leaves. Wouldn't you?

He plans to get us into the championship.. He is a lot more likely to get a return on his investment if he manages that so if he wants to spend his own money on trying to achieve that then so be it.. Its a risk to Norman.. If he decides it isn't working and sells up before that time then the chances of him getting back what he put in are slim.

I don't understand your issue.. It's just creating negativity for the sake of it.

[geosname]

My point is which specific business or businesses owe him the money..he split the "club" from the stadium so what else has been done? Which specific business or businesses is he lending money to when we see him as lending money to the "club". Maybe I'm being too cynical (again)

 

I've been asking for months (years) just what form does his ongoing "investment" in the club take..if it's loans with the expectation of getting the money back then that's one thing, if he doesn't expect to get the loans back that's a different thing, is the stadium in some way collateral for the loans..I don't know and I suppose I have no right to know..but it would be nice if we did know.

 

Wherever the money is coming from if its a loan there is debt.. there may be questions to ask if he is loaning money to one company and expecting repayment from another... if he doesnt expect repayment its not a loan its a gift... he could give it to the stadium and the club could borrow from the stadium but that still creates debt for the club/stadium.

Im not suggesting he has done something illegal... the statement was made that the club is debt free... if, like he said, smurf has made directors "loans" then it creates debt.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

But people won't buy because these loans unnecessarily over-inflate the price!

 

Christ some people would let him get away with murder

 

How do they unnecessarily over inflate the price, without him putting money in we would have a much smaller budget, i'm all for the club living with its means but that's not football sadly nowadays.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Christ you talk some crap at times

 

If there are loans to the club how can it possibly be debt free.... Ill give you a hint... its in the word "loan"... until its paid back its a debt

 

He's always said it will remain debt free, any money he puts in will not be owed when he leaves as the next owner will buy him out.

 

This ain't like loans owed to the council or some dodgy Gibraltan company.

 

You and a couple are being deliberely awkward as it's another stick to beat him with seemingly.

 

If he lies and he leaves debts then I will hate him too!

[SuperValiant1876]

If we lived within our means by rights we should be a league 2 club. OK a few clubs do OK on small crowds but the majority don't.

 

Oh and geo being awkward...never!!

[carpetman123]

Agreed REP the club will be worth a lot more than he paid for it as a div 2 club out of admin than a Championship club hopefully on the up!!

[j_grainger10]

Boring news day for some and after some positive news for once the same old cranks on here have now decided they want to try and lower the tone again and decide they want to know how the chairman is using his own money.

Why do we have to go around in the same negative circles. Give it a break please!