dwindling crowds/atmosphere

[PV1973]

I'm not saying he wouldn't have scored a couple more playing fully motivated for Vale, but his base of 8 in 48 league games for Bury is not a solid starting point for your argument. Can you not leave this one in the past please? He went, it was sad but he went for the money and to set his family up. Good reason in my opinion. We were also right to not keep paying him the inflated wage he was on, when he wasn't the same player following numerous injuries. I loved Popey but both he and Vale made the right decision no matter how you spin it.

 

Vale's issues of dwindling crowds and an apathetic fanbase can not be solved (or would have been solved) by Tom Pope being at Vale. The problems run a lot deeper than that and do not have a one-issue solution.

I feel we need home grown players in the squad, players we feel we can relate to, but I agree its not them that are an issue with the dwindling crowds. Its how we play as a team and also how well we are doing. Although either are not exclusive of the other.

 

I know we're not the richest club in the world and have to cut our cloth accordingly, but the recent trend of reducing players wages by a significant amount is sure to demotivate them and see them leave. I have no idea what Pope was on for example, but was it over inflated or just the average for our league?

[bycars bootboy]

Sorry to suggest we should have doubled the wages of a declining player however much he was liked is lunacy.

 

Pure speculation,but you never miss an opportunity do you to cement your clear anti-pope stance.Ask yourself these questions,would pope get into this present Vale first eleven and would the home crowds immediately improve,thus facilitating his (according to you)huge wage demand.Pope has been heard to say that his wage demand was not a life changing amount.

[mr.hobblesworth]

I feel we need home grown players in the squad, players we feel we can relate to

 

I disagree. Gardner and Porter aside, did Rudgie ever bring through any 'homegrown' players? There were some bit part players like Corden but having the likes of Liam Burns in the first XI didn't exactly galvanise the fanbase. Yates and Birchall were both local lads and were subjected (particularly the latter) to awful levels of abuse.

[valiant_593]

Why not bring Tom Pope into it? The lack of a Tom Pope is part of the reason crowds are down and the club lacks atmosphere.

Jones is doing well but he is not our player, he could be recalled at any time to his parent club, sold to someone else or loaned out to somewhere else, then where would we be.

A club of our standing simply cannot sustain a playing squad as large as ours, and yet the manager wants yet more players and is bemoaning our injury list.

The manager also heaps praise on our goalkeeper for his efforts against the BOTTOM TEAM in our division.....that for me speaks volumes as to why the crowds are down and there is little or no atmosphere.

 

'Our Reg', as much as he is cumbersome and somewhat ungainly has become something of a cult hero.....perhaps in the first instance as something of a novelty value, and yet he is galvanising the crowd for the few minutes he is on the pitch - something the other players seem incapable of doing at all.

 

The owner needs to sit down and consider his options going forward from next Monday. With luck, we may well beat Hartlepool and be blessed with a 'Plum Tie' in the next round. The likelihood is we may get through but draw another lower league team away from home and yes, we may well win that tie and still get a 'Plum Tie' but what if we don't?

So where does that leave us in January?

 

How many more players will Bruno be allowed to bring in? assuming of course he is still in charge.

Who would want to join our club in it's present league position?

Will Smith be allowed to leave at the very first sniff of anything above a tenner?

What is 'Plan B'?

 

As for Tom Pope......well some of us are still waiting for his cheaper replacement to appear.

 

The lack of tom pope has absolutely nothing to do with it! He was on his way out had a poor season, got offered more money there and hasn't exactly been brilliant there!! Aj did very well as a cheaper replacement and so has Jones!

[TheSage]

The problem is we've replaced decent, experienced pros at this level with a lot of untried youngsters. Some might get there in 12 months but most of them are not yet ready to play 50 90-minute games in the rain and mud - and it shows.

 

We haven't had a big target man since Pope left and one of the reasons why Grant stands out is because those around him are poor. That solid backbone is missing from the team. Luckily some of the lads who were already here have stepped up to the plate and done a man's job and we were fortunate that our loanee Jones has an eye for goal, but we are putting out a patched up team that changes each week and the experience and know-how and quality just isn't there at the moment.

 

Fans can see this and they have seen how dire we've been for over 2 months now. They've stopped attending and quite frankly no-one can blame them because the entertainment on offer is currently as bad as it's been for quite some time.

 

We've pointed this out endlessly but the number of chances we create, the number of shot on target we have and the number of bodies we get into the box is truly abysmal. "All we are saying is give us a shot!"

[onestepatatime]

I don't think Popey would make our first team. He really is nowadays no better than whoever is left upfront to plough a lone furrow. Popey's legs have gone and it appears also his "instinct" to score at this lower level.Also I don't think the crowds would improve, just because he was back here.

 

You state that certain posters have a clear " anti-Pope" stance and again I don't agree. The majority of us want to simply get on with it, with whatever squad we have. The million times and more people have posted on here about Pope have said it all, time and again. Thanks Tom for you useful input into our Team but yes it was time for you to go. What I do agree with though is that we have NOT replaced a fit, able Pope, at present. We "may " have a couple of potential candidates, time will only tell.

[geosname]

When you're in the habit of attending, I don't think the facilities are really of any importance at all. When I lived locally and was a season ticket holder, going to matches was something I kind of did without even thinking, it was just what I did. However, once people stop attending (as has been pointed out on here umpteen times) they actually need to be attracted to the club and the matchday experience is poor. Having said that, I don't think anyone came away from, I dunno, the 7-2 Burton game orsome of the decent home performances of the last couple of seasons bemoaning the lack of toilet paper in the Bycars or the absence of brown sauce in the kiosks. Obviously performance is key. It feels like a lot of people who used to habitually attend have now broken that habit and, personally, this is the first time I can recall where I don't actually want to go to games. I will (when possible) but out of a sense of duty rather than with any enthusiasm. Performances, off field issues, some supporters, personal finances and available time; they've all slowly chipped away at any desire to travel to Burslem and I'm genuinely more enthusiastic about clearing out my shed than coming to the FA Cup game on Sunday. It's all very sad. I do feel that if performances improved then the other things might not be of such pertinence but I remember when we were playing well (at home) under Page and Bruno and it didn't arrest the slide whatsoever.

 

I think I know what your saying but perhaps the "facilities/weather/etc" are part of the straw that damaged the camel... on there own unimportant but collectively with poor performance/boredom/uninspiring play/spiritless effort etc they add just enough weight to do the damage

[philpvfc]

I've supported the Vale for 30 years now and for 28 years been to at least 80% of home games and at least 50% of away games every season, last season I went to 7 games (3 home, 4 away) and this season I have only been to the Bristol Rovers game. Although distance does play a major part, when I lived in Cornwall beforehand I still attended well over half the games home and away. The big reason I've stopped attending is due to the way the club has been run for so many years, appointing Page to me showed so much lack of ambition, traveling all that way to a half built stadium with no atmosphere at all, obviously the cost and the dross I have to witness nearly every time I go to watch the Vale. In 3 seasons I've seen us win 1 game and that includes 3 seasons a go I did go to nearly half the games and the last 2 times I've been to Vale park we have lost 11-0. I guess I was living in hope for 28 years but now have just given up. I will always support the Vale and when I'm not attending I am glued to sky waiting for the scores to come through. Unfortunately I believe I am one of many, the club needs to do something to start bringing fans to the club and to encourage the next generation to come to the Vale.

[stupers]

I feel we need home grown players in the squad, players we feel we can relate to, but I agree its not them that are an issue with the dwindling crowds. Its how we play as a team and also how well we are doing. Although either are not exclusive of the other.

 

I know we're not the richest club in the world and have to cut our cloth accordingly, but the recent trend of reducing players wages by a significant amount is sure to demotivate them and see them leave. I have no idea what Pope was on for example, but was it over inflated or just the average for our league?

 

Home-grown players for sure. I like seeing local lads making it and doing well. It's been excellent to see Smith's progress this season, but at the end of the day he's a defender and whilst he's notched a few it's our forward play that should entertain people. There's been no progress there, in fact we've probably gone backwards from last year. Our forward play is riddled with mistakes, from players out of position to the people we should expect the most from misplacing passes at key times. As I've said before if it was just a couple of players, then it's down to the individuals. If it's almost all of them then that's on the coaching staff.

 

The end of last year (budget reduction, Page leaving) has been extremely poor for people who follow the club. Those who follow events closely would say the preparation for selling season tickets was shambolic with the suggested budget cuts and the manager leaving. People just roll their eyes and say 'Typical Vale'. Some had finally had enough eye-rolling and decided that was it. The Smurf tenure as Chairman is seen by many (I believe) to have been jumping from one catastrophe to the next. This is difficult to accept for a lot of people (including me) that believe this should have been a perfect chairman for us given his experience and expertise in the business world. Sadly, he hasn't managed to transfer it to running a football club.

[TheSage]

That's spot on.

We've said before that the failure to sell enough tickets in pre-season when the Club was in a mess is at the root of our problems as it looks as if none of the lost 500-600 have returned.

But when you add in the lack of exciting, attacking football, the failure to create chances and get the crowd off their seats, then the problem becomes worse.

In the final third our attacking play is truly abysmal and as you say playing lads out of position is criminal on top of the fact that they are not very good anyway.

Is it surprising we fail to beat the two bottom teams when for example on Saturday we have a lone striker, supported by what must be the worst attacking trio we've seen behind him. Kelly, Kiko & Hart! That's two left footed full backs and a lad who hasn't scored for about 6 months.

By comparison, when we were in Div 2 our front 4 would have been Vincent, M-Williams, Hughes & Pope!

 

You can fool people some of the time but there comes a point when fans can see what's going on and they vote with their feet. I can think of several walk ups who have barely attended a game lately and they all say the same thing - we are a poor team that is unexciting and boring to watch. Sadly, it wasn't a lot better last year but it's got even worse and people are fed up. It's not rocket science why crowds have declined.

[PV1973]

Pre-season we could see that our forward play was an issue. The coaching staff even mentioned it was something to work on in their interviews, yet little has changed since then. Playing 2 left backs in those attacking positions is quite a damning verdict on the attacking players that Bruno has brought in to the club. Either Bruno believes they're not good enough or he's the most defensive minded manager we've ever had. Also what message does that send out to the other players within that squad, someone in your position gets injured and the manager would rather play a left back out of position than you. Whats the point of such a huge squad if lads don't get the chance when needed.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Pure speculation,but you never miss an opportunity do you to cement your clear anti-pope stance.Ask yourself these questions,would pope get into this present Vale first eleven and would the home crowds immediately improve,thus facilitating his (according to you)huge wage demand.Pope has been heard to say that his wage demand was not a life changing amount.

 

Anti-Pope stance? What on earth justifies that comment from my previous post?

 

Now moving on a current Pope wouldn't no, the Pope of 2012-13 would fly in.

 

The home crowd wouldn't improve, why on earth would it? If fans are that fickle they would only attend if a former cult hero came back they'd be sure to find another excuse not to attend.

 

So £3k a week isn't a life changing amount for a man from Sneyd Green? I'm sure he hasn't said that, I know he's not a brain surgeon but he ain't daft.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

I don't think Popey would make our first team. He really is nowadays no better than whoever is left upfront to plough a lone furrow. Popey's legs have gone and it appears also his "instinct" to score at this lower level.Also I don't think the crowds would improve, just because he was back here.

 

You state that certain posters have a clear " anti-Pope" stance and again I don't agree. The majority of us want to simply get on with it, with whatever squad we have. The million times and more people have posted on here about Pope have said it all, time and again. Thanks Tom for you useful input into our Team but yes it was time for you to go. What I do agree with though is that we have NOT replaced a fit, able Pope, at present. We "may " have a couple of potential candidates, time will only tell.

 

Excellent post that, put much better than I did!

[SuperValiant1876]

Is Tom Pope the reason for nearly every team in league 1 attendance dropping since 15/16?

 

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league-one/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/GB3

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-league-one-2015-2016/1/

 

Now I don't know what the answer is but it is across the board, it isn't just at Vale so Bruno, Pope, et al cannot be to blame.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

For me the big issues within the control of the club as to why attendances are dwindling at Vale Park are a) Norman's PR, or lack of, b) the expense of getting in the ground for non season ticket holders, c) signing a gazillion players no one's heard of from teams no one's heard of in lower leagues no one knows anything about, leaving us with a squad of around 35 players of which around a dozen or so are of L1 standard and d) after 18 games we have had the lowest number of shots of any team, the lowest number of shots on target, the most shots against us and the most shots on target against us, ie, we're not good to watch (unless you're a fan of our opposition or you're Jak Alnwick's mum beaming at all the saves he has to make).