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Manager Poll  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Askey in/out

    • In
      53
    • Out
      99


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1 minute ago, PV1973 said:

I assume that’s directed at me and suffice to say I would never say who my sources were, and I would also never just “make something up”. But they are concrete as far as I’m concerned because these come from so high up within the club. IMO we need him on the pitch at the moment, but the club do not push players away for no reason and they certainly don’t if someone was just having family issues. 

No mate sorry wasn't a pop at you. There are numerous accusations on here from Mckirdy to Clark to Robinson etc etc. 

He tweeted good luck to the lads at Walsall, I don't think he's being pushed away, clearly something has gone on which has affected his form. 

Again not a pop at you, the club itself clearly isn't water tight if concrete information is coming out. 

People were on a Smurf email list in the past, leaks from the club now are going back to the bad days under him yet we are all to believe everything is wonderful with our current owners ? 

Sadly doesn't appear all is rosy in the garden on or off the pitch 

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Utterly disgusted with this topic. We have very short memories. We have a squad that is capable of competing. We are mid-table. Those who think they know more than a manager who has won titles at

JA came to PVFC and saved us from possible relegation in 2018/19 season, we were dire and had been for a few seasons. Turned Vale around and  almost certainly would have got Vale in the play-offs in t

Askey has won one title, in the level below. 'Titles at every level' is blatantly incorrect. He's also won a Cheshire Senior Cup, and came 2nd in an FA Trophy. No idea where you've got that fact from.

On 20/12/2020 at 10:10, MBE said:

For the owners I think its a question of either writing this season off or challenging for the play offs. To challenge a change is needed now to allow someone to bring in 2 or 3 lads, which I think would see us in the play offs.

Think it's more serious than that. At present, we're 23rd in the form table over the last eight games and if we carry on like this, our owners will have to make a different calculation. Whatever the causes of our current malaise, someone, somewhere in the club needs to assert their authority because otherwise we'll find ourselves in a survival fight.

To some extent, I feel sympathy for JA because if there's someone in the club who's undermining him, for whatever reason, it makes life very difficult. He and our owners need to stamp on it straightaway. Personally, I would trust Carol and Kevin to act decisively because, whether JA stays or not, this sort of insidious behaviour will do serious damage to the club.

Having said this, JA appears to me to be out of his depth - a non-league manager if ever I've seen one. He simply doesn't have the tactical nous to respond effectively to the changes other managers make and we have glaring deficiencies (like our tendency to concede last minute goals) that he's never managed to put right. Too many of the players are letting him down badly at the moment but they are his players which of course raises a few questions about his recruitment. I couldn't imagine MA putting up with this sort of player performance.

Sad to say, I think JA has taken us as far as he can.

 

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3 minutes ago, CambridgeDon said:

Think it's more serious than that. At present, we're 23rd in the form table over the last eight games and if we carry on like this, our owners will have to make a different calculation. Whatever the causes of our current malaise, someone, somewhere in the club needs to assert their authority because otherwise we'll find ourselves in a survival fight.

To some extent, I feel sympathy for JA because if there's someone in the club who's undermining him, for whatever reason, it makes life very difficult. He and our owners need to stamp on it straightaway. Personally, I would trust Carol and Kevin to act decisively because, whether JA stays or not, this sort of insidious behaviour will do serious damage to the club.

Having said this, JA appears to me to be out of his depth - a non-league manager if ever I've seen one. He simply doesn't have the tactical nous to respond effectively to the changes other managers make and we have glaring deficiencies (like our tendency to concede last minute goals) that he's never managed to put right. Too many of the players are letting him down badly at the moment but they are his players which of course raises a few questions about his recruitment. I couldn't imagine MA putting up with this sort of player performance.

Sad to say, I think JA has taken us as far as he can.

 

I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories, I just think it’s as simple as players and recruitment.

We trusted last seasons squad to reproduce the form that they showed at the end of last season and it just hasn’t happened.  When I see Mills shank a simple cross onto our post when under no pressure, and the same player miss a sitter to equalise near the death, it’s just rank poor play not due to any conspiracy.  And as we’ve seen, Mills hasn’t been on his own in this regard.

Whether JA is at his limit is a moot point because whoever were to come in would still have a somewhat limited squad at their disposal.

Given the current climate, the balanced view must surely be to use any funds, which must be extremely limited right now, to try to improve the first team with one or two proven players.  We certainly don’t need any more squad players/bench warmers.

The managers position should, and I’m sure is, always be under scrutiny, but for me we all got mugged into believing our first team was good enough so we stood still.  The only other excuse being the exceptional situation the club found itself in due to the pandemic.

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I'm in too. I don't think the squad is too bad working on the budget we have during a pandemic etc.

 

But, I do believe something has happened since October. You don't go from a rock solid 0 - 0 team to a 6 - 3 team with no obvious changes in tactics overnight. 

 

Maybe someone with more time on their hands could see what JA has changed to make the defence so leaky, but I think theres more to it.

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30 minutes ago, Ron C said:

Utterly disgusted with this topic.

We have very short memories. We have a squad that is capable of competing. We are mid-table. Those who think they know more than a manager who has won titles at every level up to ours are wrong.

To do this to one of our own shows me that we deserve the disaster we've lived through for years. We have had a club ripped apart by awful ownership for years. Why don't we appreciate the value of being together?

Fervently IN for me. We are in  a much better position than we have been in for years. We have a squad which is pretty much interchangeable. That pays off when other squads tire. Why can't the idiots on here recognise that?

Askey has won one title, in the level below. 'Titles at every level' is blatantly incorrect. He's also won a Cheshire Senior Cup, and came 2nd in an FA Trophy. No idea where you've got that fact from. His only other job at professional level ended acrimoniously 21 games in.

We are mid-table. This is after our excellent Chairlady promised us playoffs, extended all the key players contracts, and has turned our club around. Are fans not right, considering how well she has backed Askey, to be let down with 16th at Christmas in a season where our ageing squad probably needs to be making the playoffs?

I don't think anyone on here thinks they could do better than Askey - that isn't the point. They think an alternative manager could do a better job. No one on here is throwing their hat into the ring.

A very poor comment to assert that fans wanting the best the Port Vale show that 'we deserved' Norman Smurthwaite, a man who was intent on liquidating the football club for financial gain. Fans have different views and to put the blame for one destructive, unhinged man onto supporters who wish to see a top 7 finish is maybe privy to the anger you felt when you wrote this.

I agree, we're in a much better position, but for how long can we really let Norman Smurthwaite fester in our club's consciousness as a barometer for success? We need to move on. He's gone. We should be doing much better. We're much better than what that clown had us achieving. We're currently only 2 places higher than where we were when Askey arrived, under Norman. We're lower in the League 2 table than Neil Aspin was 2 years ago today.

If our squad is so interchangeable and can punish other teams when they tire, why is our record in the last 10 minutes of games so consistently and disproportionally abject? It doesn't make sense to me.

I like Askey, and think he's done us a great service in steadying the ship and righting the wrongs, but I feel his recruitment has set us back a couple of years, and his inability to react to a changing game keeps costing us points. 

We may have different views on what the best path for Port Vale is Ron, but you make several silly claims/blatantly false assertions in the above post that you might want to reconsider.

 

Edited by Joe B
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41 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

The managers position should, and I’m sure is, always be under scrutiny, but for me we all got mugged into believing our first team was good enough so we stood still.  The only other excuse being the exceptional situation the club found itself in due to the pandemic.

This is the key bit. We thought that the form of February-March could be extrapolated over 46 games of this season. 

Every other club is in the same pandemic, many with nowhere near the 4k STs we've sold. It's a level playing field. If Morecambe can sit in 5th, and they struggle to break even in normal times, we've got zero excuses.

 

Edited by Joe B

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We're actually in a lower position in the League now than we were under Neil Aspin 2 years ago today.

We were 15th under him on 23rd December 2018, and today we're 16th.

Is progress actually progress if you end up regressing afterwards?

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31 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Askey has won one title, in the level below. 'Titles at every level' is blatantly incorrect. He's also won a Cheshire Senior Cup, and came 2nd in an FA Trophy. No idea where you've got that fact from. His only other job at professional level ended acrimoniously 21 games in.

We are mid-table. This is after our excellent Chairlady promised us playoffs, extended all the key players contracts, and has turned our club around. Are fans not right, considering how well she has backed Askey, to be let down with 16th at Christmas in a season where our ageing squad probably needs to be making the playoffs?

I don't think anyone on here thinks they could do better than Askey - that isn't the point. They think an alternative manager could do a better job. No one on here is throwing their hat into the ring.

A very poor comment to assert that fans wanting the best the Port Vale show that 'we deserved' Norman Smurthwaite, a man who was intent on liquidating the football club for financial gain. Fans have different views and to put the blame for one destructive, unhinged man onto supporters who wish to see a top 7 finish is maybe privy to the anger you felt when you wrote this.

I agree, we're in a much better position, but for how long can we really let Norman Smurthwaite fester in our club's consciousness as a barometer for success? We need to move on. He's gone. We should be doing much better. We're much better than what that clown had us achieving. We're currently only 2 places higher than where we were when Askey arrived, under Norman. We're lower in the League 2 table than Neil Aspin was 2 years ago today.

If our squad is so interchangeable and can punish other teams when they tire, why is our record in the last 10 minutes of games so consistently and disproportionally abject? It doesn't make sense to me.

I like Askey, and think he's done us a great service in steadying the ship and righting the wrongs, but I feel his recruitment has set us back a couple of years, and his inability to react to a changing game keeps costing us points. 

We may have different views on what the best path for Port Vale is Ron, but you make several silly claims/blatantly false assertions in the above post that you might want to reconsider.

 

You understand his role as a player, do you? You understand the positions he has held in football, do you? No, obviously not.

Regarding deserving Smurthwaite; why  not enjoy the club being stable and in the hands of our "own". We have stable management. We might not have the greatest budget in the league but we are punching solidly. Why not be content that the person who has helped turn it around is still pushing for improvements? Why not give them the chance to do it?

Regarding your judgement of silliness, your criticism is that I'm right? We're currently higher? If you're this great font of football knowledge, you'll also know that the current budget is lower than that of Aspin's and relatively worse against this league.  I think my assertions hold water. Yours clearly don't.

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38 minutes ago, Joe B said:

This is the key bit. We thought that the form of February-March could be extrapolated over 46 games of this season. 

Every other club is in the same pandemic, many with nowhere near the 4k STs we've sold. It's a level playing field. If Morecambe can sit in 5th, and they struggle to break even in normal times, we've got zero excuses.

 

Morecambe have worked out a system that gets results even if they don't play well, they can grind out results, if we don't play well we get beaten end of.

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17 minutes ago, Ron C said:

You understand his role as a player, do you? You understand the positions he has held in football, do you? No, obviously not.

Regarding deserving Smurthwaite; why  not enjoy the club being stable and in the hands of our "own". We have stable management. We might not have the greatest budget in the league but we are punching solidly. Why not be content that the person who has helped turn it around is still pushing for improvements? Why not give them the chance to do it?

Regarding your judgement of silliness, your criticism is that I'm right? We're currently higher? If you're this great font of football knowledge, you'll also know that the current budget is lower than that of Aspin's and relatively worse against this league.  I think my assertions hold water. Yours clearly don't.

You're not seriously using the argument that John Askey won some non-league titles as a player to defend his aptitude as a manager are you? Really? Michael Brown and Bruno Ribeiro have played in the Premier League, so you'd have them back under this axiom?

And are you seriously in the belief that us now being 16th as opposed to 18th is vindication that we have improved? If you wish to celebrate being proven right, go for it, I guess.

Considering the systemic improvement of the off the field side of the club, 2 places in 2 years (and we're actually one place lower today than we were two years ago today) is insufficient progress, and the squad is significantly older and in need of re-jigging.

Look, if you're heartened by Askey winning the Northern Premier League as a winger in 1987, then fine, and if you're content with being 16th and not 18th, then also fine. I happen to disagree that it's up to scratch considering pre-season expectations of his boss.

I am no font of football knowledge, and certainly am not privy to budgetary considerations as you are, but we need to escape this constraint of 'budget is the sole dictator of success'. Morecambe are 5th. Carlisle are 3rd. Accrington are on the verge of the League 1 playoffs. Let's be a bit more ambitious than 'punching solidly' in 16th in the worst professional league in the country. We're so much better than that, especially under this fantastic owner.

Edited by Joe B
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10 minutes ago, blackdog said:

Morecambe have worked out a system that gets results even if they don't play well, they can grind out results, if we don't play well we get beaten end of.

Yes but we're punching solidly in 16th and Askey played on the right wing in a Cheshire Senior Cup final defeat in 1989 so I'm utterly disgusted by all of the idiots on here who want to win some games of football.

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Just now, Joe B said:

Yes but we're punching solidly in 16th and Askey played on the right wing in a Cheshire Senior Cup final defeat in 1989 so I'm utterly disgusted by all of the idiots on here who want to win some games of football.

If you recognise yourself as an idiot, then so be it. Who am I to argue with that?

My point is that he has success and understands how to win. He's done it as a player and as a manager. We have a worse budget than when he arrived. Progress includes stability. Clubs do not win anything without stability. He has showed that he can win on a slender budget.

I think malcontents like yourself undermine everything we are doing as a club. I think that you fail to understand how teams are built. It takes time. The first year requires the cleaning out. The next year or 2 is where the foundations are put into place for stability. The seasons after those are where the team is built. Key players are acquired over time.

We DO NOT have a massive budget to attract the better players from the lower leagues. We need someone who will blood lesser known talent. That is how you do it. JA has a track record of doing it and being involved in it. You, do not, and you seemingly do not understand how it works either.

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1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories, I just think it’s as simple as players and recruitment.

We trusted last seasons squad to reproduce the form that they showed at the end of last season and it just hasn’t happened.  When I see Mills shank a simple cross onto our post when under no pressure, and the same player miss a sitter to equalise near the death, it’s just rank poor play not due to any conspiracy.  And as we’ve seen, Mills hasn’t been on his own in this regard.

Whether JA is at his limit is a moot point because whoever were to come in would still have a somewhat limited squad at their disposal.

Given the current climate, the balanced view must surely be to use any funds, which must be extremely limited right now, to try to improve the first team with one or two proven players.  We certainly don’t need any more squad players/bench warmers.

The managers position should, and I’m sure is, always be under scrutiny, but for me we all got mugged into believing our first team was good enough so we stood still.  The only other excuse being the exceptional situation the club found itself in due to the pandemic.

Sorry GR, but that just doesn't make sense. If the problem is players and recruitment and these are Askey's players - that he recruited or decided to keep - how can the owners possibly back him with more money to make the same mistakes? And if we all got mugged into believing our first team was good enough, presumably Askey's judgement is seriously poor because he clearly believed they were good enough. Askey is at his limit because he failed to strengthen the squad sufficiently and now can't get the performances he needs out of them. And the pandemic is the same for everyone. 

Simply put, mediocre - and awful - as our performances have been, we are less than the sum of our parts whereas a better manager would get more out of these same players, select a better match day squad to match our opponents, make better tactical decisions when we are under pressure and organise the team to manage out games from a winning position - making us more than the sum of our parts.

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2 hours ago, Emile said:

I'm in too. I don't think the squad is too bad working on the budget we have during a pandemic etc.

 

But, I do believe something has happened since October. You don't go from a rock solid 0 - 0 team to a 6 - 3 team with no obvious changes in tactics overnight. 

 

Maybe someone with more time on their hands could see what JA has changed to make the defence so leaky, but I think theres more to it.

Why is it beyond the bounds of reason to see that a players form is variable, moreso the lower down the leagues you go.  We've been in and out all season.  Make no mistake these are good players we're talking about here, but one of the reasons they're plying their trade at this level is an inability to perfom at their potential maximum week in week out.  Throw confidence, or lack of, into the mix and you don't need to look for other reasons.  We've had individual errors costing us game after game, and that includes the ill judged challenges which have resulted in sendings off in a couple of those games.  Cut these errors out and results will improve.

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3 hours ago, Joe B said:

This is the key bit. We thought that the form of February-March could be extrapolated over 46 games of this season. 

Every other club is in the same pandemic, many with nowhere near the 4k STs we've sold. It's a level playing field. If Morecambe can sit in 5th, and they struggle to break even in normal times, we've got zero excuses.

 

It's fair to accept that though Joe but it just hasn't happened.  It's the same as we all believe that we'd finish in the play offs if the season han't been cut short.  The reality is that we could just have easily crashed, there's no way of knowing.

ST sales mean next to nothing, certainly no devine right to success.  You mention Morecambe but on the flp side there's Bradford.

Anyway, if we were 5th but playing like Morecambe fans would be up in arms about our style of play.

Edited by Guitar Ray

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3 hours ago, Ron C said:

Utterly disgusted with this topic.

We have very short memories. We have a squad that is capable of competing. We are mid-table. Those who think they know more than a manager who has won titles at every level up to ours are wrong.

To do this to one of our own shows me that we deserve the disaster we've lived through for years. We have had a club ripped apart by awful ownership for years. Why don't we appreciate the value of being together?

Fervently IN for me. We are in  a much better position than we have been in for years. We have a squad which is pretty much interchangeable. That pays off when other squads tire. Why can't the idiots on here recognise that?

What a load of codswallop ,are you even a Vale fan ,off the field how good are we actually you sure we not losing loads of money I bet we are and will continue to do while fans not allowed in .

Calling people idiots just cause they do not agree with you ,you happy we keep conceding amateurish goals ,you happy Askey can somehow not see what every supporter can see on a every game basis ,how many times have we lead this season and let that lead slip while he sits there and does nothing ,keep happy clapping whoever's you are but if you were a Vale I doubt you are although you could be with a very upbeat positivity about our excellent losing goals after 80 mins and somehow losing games which a decent manager would have made sure the games were closed out .

Let's just carry on hey you will not be sticking up for him then  if this run continues but then maybe you will as your  as short sighted as our defenders who seem to give oceans of space to forwards gamely to ruin the Vale fans most weekends .

Every other club when there having a bad run gets rid of the manager I hope for your sake Carol's loyalty to him is rewarded but do not come on here dissing our support and telling folk who yes we ain't management but if we can see what's clearly wrong why has it took till the 19th league game see what's wrong after 9 defeats a defeat v Kings Lynn thrown in and the only chance make any money ruined by playing the second string v Fleetwood .

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He did well at Macclesfield and was unlucky at Shrewsbury who had a lot of players on loan who all returned to their parent clubs at the end of their successful season. He came to Vale and steadied the ship (not greatly). He had a good season last season even though some of his tactics and managerial skills were questioned. He’s signed over twenty players and having said previously that he’ll sign quanlity or quantity. We were an attractive club to sign for in the summer because of the position that we were in before the season was ended prematurely and our owners. If anyone thinks we’ve improved or are still a club that could attract better players then they’re deluded. Like I’ve said he’s signed over twenty players and none of them are the best players at the club, they were here before he came. He got a pay out from Macc and would have had one from Shrewsbury. He’s entitled to a payout from us as he’s got a contract, which we probably can’t afford to pay. I wished he’d just walk but I can’t see that happening. 

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