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Manager Poll  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Askey in/out

    • In
      53
    • Out
      99


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2 hours ago, Ron C said:

If you recognise yourself as an idiot, then so be it. Who am I to argue with that?

My point is that he has success and understands how to win. He's done it as a player and as a manager. We have a worse budget than when he arrived. Progress includes stability. Clubs do not win anything without stability. He has showed that he can win on a slender budget.

I think malcontents like yourself undermine everything we are doing as a club. I think that you fail to understand how teams are built. It takes time. The first year requires the cleaning out. The next year or 2 is where the foundations are put into place for stability. The seasons after those are where the team is built. Key players are acquired over time.

We DO NOT have a massive budget to attract the better players from the lower leagues. We need someone who will blood lesser known talent. That is how you do it. JA has a track record of doing it and being involved in it. You, do not, and you seemingly do not understand how it works either.

It’s a wonder you haven’t rolled out the well we are in a better position than chesterfield or Wrexham or bury you probably wanted aspin to be given more time 

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1 hour ago, CambridgeDon said:

Sorry GR, but that just doesn't make sense. If the problem is players and recruitment and these are Askey's players - that he recruited or decided to keep - how can the owners possibly back him with more money to make the same mistakes? And if we all got mugged into believing our first team was good enough, presumably Askey's judgement is seriously poor because he clearly believed they were good enough. Askey is at his limit because he failed to strengthen the squad sufficiently and now can't get the performances he needs out of them. And the pandemic is the same for everyone. 

Simply put, mediocre - and awful - as our performances have been, we are less than the sum of our parts whereas a better manager would get more out of these same players, select a better match day squad to match our opponents, make better tactical decisions when we are under pressure and organise the team to manage out games from a winning position - making us more than the sum of our parts.

I've answered this in my previous post.  Everyone believed that had the season not ended prematurely we were destined for the playoffs and potential promotion, this belief carried over into great optimism for this season.  We believed it, why wouldn't JA and Co?

Yes, we are performing at a level "less than the sum of our parts" but this is down to some of those parts showing huge inconsistency.  We're seeing schoolboy errors.  You can blame the manager 100% if you like but from what I've watched it's been mainly the players at fault.  Experienced pro's shouldn't be making these sort of errors on such a regular basis.  It's like groundhog day.

Someone new could come in and the players suddenly find some form, the so called "new manager bounce", but there's no guarantee.

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2 hours ago, Ron C said:

The first year requires the cleaning out. The next year or 2 is where the foundations are put into place for stability. The seasons after those are where the team is built. Key players are acquired over time.

I completely agree with your sentiment however where are have these signings been over the past 18 months??  If all players are fit the 1st eleven would essentially be Aspin's team plus Amoo and possibly Rodney.

With the lack of progression in that 1st eleven and JA found wanting tactically, the harsh reality is this squad will need another complete overhaul in the summer and not a steady build.

We had a window of opportunity with this squad and it has being squandered by JA.

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2 hours ago, Ron C said:

 

We DO NOT have a massive budget to attract the better players from the lower leagues. We need someone who will blood lesser known talent. That is how you do it. JA has a track record of doing it and being involved in it. You, do not, and you seemingly do not understand how it works either.

We certainly should have a decent budget given we have one of the largest fanbases in league 2. 

I get it when Smurfwaite was being tight and we “starved him out” but those days are gone. 
 

If we can’t compete at the top of league 2, you have to ask questions of the owners. There is absolutely no valid reason why we should be struggling to compete financially in league 2. 

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5 minutes ago, MBE said:

 

I completely agree with your sentiment however where are have these signings been over the past 18 months??  If all players are fit the 1st eleven would essentially be Aspin's team plus Amoo and possibly Rodney.

With the lack of progression in that 1st eleven and JA found wanting tactically, the harsh reality is this squad will need another complete overhaul in the summer and not a steady build.

We had a window of opportunity with this squad and it has being squandered by JA.

Bang on mate 

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7 hours ago, darren1810 said:

Clark by the looks of it has had a torrid time off the pitch. His head hasn't been right .

This was tweeted by himself. Don't think it's that he's a bad apple it purely looks like he's had a rough time personally. 

 

 

Sounds more plausible than Mitch being a problem/trouble causing player. I hope things can be sorted out for him at Vale and he stays 'til the end of the season 'cause he's a better full back than either Fitz or Mills. I'd be hacked off is he suddenly turned up at another Lge 2 club in January.

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The new owners cut the budget when they came in so how do we have a competitive budget we have a mid table budget and that I'm afraid to say rests solely with them.
In their defense though they have spent hundreds of thousands on the stadium, they are still paying fatty and they have invested in the youth set up.

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58 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Sounds more plausible than Mitch being a problem/trouble causing player. I hope things can be sorted out for him at Vale and he stays 'til the end of the season 'cause he's a better full back than either Fitz or Mills. I'd be hacked off is he suddenly turned up at another Lge 2 club in January.

Didn't Mitch lose his nan,who he was very close to and found it difficult to get over?

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7 minutes ago, ELDERBEZZA said:

Didn't Mitch lose his nan,who he was very close to and found it difficult to get over?

EB, I have no idea what the true issue is, I'm only going off what other OVF users have taken off Twitter and the fact this is Mitch's 3rd stint at Vale which suggests he's not a "Problem player".

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2 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

I've answered this in my previous post.  Everyone believed that had the season not ended prematurely we were destined for the playoffs and potential promotion, this belief carried over into great optimism for this season.  We believed it, why wouldn't JA and Co?

Yes, we are performing at a level "less than the sum of our parts" but this is down to some of those parts showing huge inconsistency.  We're seeing schoolboy errors.  You can blame the manager 100% if you like but from what I've watched it's been mainly the players at fault.  Experienced pro's shouldn't be making these sort of errors on such a regular basis.  It's like groundhog day.

Someone new could come in and the players suddenly find some form, the so called "new manager bounce", but there's no guarantee.

To say we believed it is a broad and inaccurate generalisation. Not everyone believed it and several posters on this site (me included) were consistent in saying that we were short in our recruitment, especially in midfield.

And it's not accurate to say that it's mainly the players who are at fault. As I said in my previous post, they are Askey's players and at the end of the day he's the one being paid to get a tune out of them. It's Askey who decides who stays or goes, recruits new players, selects the team, decides on tactics, motivates and organises them and manages the game through substitutions and changes in approach on the day. Yes, the players have let him down but, at the end of the day, he's the one responsible for their performance. Or else why have a manager? While there have been some glaring individual errors, most of our demise has been through his poor team selection, tactical ineptitude, and lack of game management - with some deficiencies that he's failed to put right over two seasons. 

Yes, there are no guarantees but we are going nowhere. And won't ever under this manager and with this (his) squad. It's as simple as that. 

This is why managers get the sack - because they are underperforming as leaders - and Askey is no different. 

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3 hours ago, Breadwinner said:

What a load of codswallop ,are you even a Vale fan ,off the field how good are we actually you sure we not losing loads of money I bet we are and will continue to do while fans not allowed in .

Calling people idiots just cause they do not agree with you ,you happy we keep conceding amateurish goals ,you happy Askey can somehow not see what every supporter can see on a every game basis ,how many times have we lead this season and let that lead slip while he sits there and does nothing ,keep happy clapping whoever's you are but if you were a Vale I doubt you are although you could be with a very upbeat positivity about our excellent losing goals after 80 mins and somehow losing games which a decent manager would have made sure the games were closed out .

Let's just carry on hey you will not be sticking up for him then  if this run continues but then maybe you will as your  as short sighted as our defenders who seem to give oceans of space to forwards gamely to ruin the Vale fans most weekends .

Every other club when there having a bad run gets rid of the manager I hope for your sake Carol's loyalty to him is rewarded but do not come on here dissing our support and telling folk who yes we ain't management but if we can see what's clearly wrong why has it took till the 19th league game see what's wrong after 9 defeats a defeat v Kings Lynn thrown in and the only chance make any money ruined by playing the second string v Fleetwood .

No I;m not happy you complete tool.

What I know is that no matter how unhappy I am with the situation, I look at what the competition is up to  and we are in a much better place than they are.

 

Just carry on sticking up for him? Is this how you run your life? Does your life always go to plan? You dig in and support the people who are doing their best; provided they know what they are doing. He knows what he's doing. Get behind him rather than moaning as though you know better.

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2 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

We certainly should have a decent budget given we have one of the largest fanbases in league 2. 

I get it when Smurfwaite was being tight and we “starved him out” but those days are gone. 
 

If we can’t compete at the top of league 2, you have to ask questions of the owners. There is absolutely no valid reason why we should be struggling to compete financially in league 2. 

The budget was higher under Smurfwaithe. I do not question our current owners as they unquestionably want the best and we are unquestionably in better hands now. We have a mid-table budget which is where we are. We will be higher by the end of the season.

We have a squad which has little drop off to the reserves so we'll become stronger as fatigue hits in after Christmas. BY then, all will be forgotten when other realise how this works.

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2 hours ago, MBE said:

 

I completely agree with your sentiment however where are have these signings been over the past 18 months??  If all players are fit the 1st eleven would essentially be Aspin's team plus Amoo and possibly Rodney.

With the lack of progression in that 1st eleven and JA found wanting tactically, the harsh reality is this squad will need another complete overhaul in the summer and not a steady build.

We had a window of opportunity with this squad and it has being squandered by JA.

You make a valid observation. The problem is that 3 of our highest earners are in that bracket. Brown, Pope and Legge. Will you be the one to say get rid of them? Brown and Legge were immense last year and part of the backbone of the side.

With building squads, it's all risk v reward. You need some outlandish risks to come off but also need to pay for stability. His signings this summer were pretty much all low cost and therefore low risk. Just maybe, the players that he really fancied weren't available. You don't over-pay for someone who isn't a guaranteed product. I have faith in his signings. His outlay is low and he's already made a profit just off selling Bennett. His track record speaks for itself in the transfer market. He uncovers gems. Even in his short spell at Shrewsbury he made them a fortune. I think he left them with something like £3m transfer surplus.

I don't think now is the time to throw too much mud at him. He'll be hurting more than anyone.

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13 minutes ago, Ron C said:

No I;m not happy you complete tool.

What I know is that no matter how unhappy I am with the situation, I look at what the competition is up to  and we are in a much better place than they are.

 

Just carry on sticking up for him? Is this how you run your life? Does your life always go to plan? You dig in and support the people who are doing their best; provided they know what they are doing. He knows what he's doing. Get behind him rather than moaning as though you know better.

How can you get behind someone who's decisions or lack of them are costing us football matches like sat v Walsall after we conceded the first two goals why didnt he haul the culprits off then not wait till we losing then haul one of the defenders off ,v Tranmere winning 3-2 why not use gamesmanship throw yourself on the floor ,make subs win the game ,and that's only two games I could go through quite a few but be here all night I've got go work in a hr so I'm going have a sleep now .

I hope you are right as going forwards we are a decent side ,but to lose games in the manner we have is shocking ,all I want is the good ship Vale do well ,you have to change your tactics as a game evolves what may have being good first half as proven is not good second half .

You have to have a plan A ,B ,C ,D and so on, I think we have the players win every game so use players to change systems so they do ,and this message is for Askey as obviously he is a close friend of yours change your one dimensional ways UTV 

By the way I'm no tool I'm just a concerned about where this giving away of careless goals weekly going get us as we are 16th now and dropping 

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7 hours ago, Ron C said:

If you recognise yourself as an idiot, then so be it. Who am I to argue with that?

My point is that he has success and understands how to win. He's done it as a player and as a manager. We have a worse budget than when he arrived. Progress includes stability. Clubs do not win anything without stability. He has showed that he can win on a slender budget.

I think malcontents like yourself undermine everything we are doing as a club. I think that you fail to understand how teams are built. It takes time. The first year requires the cleaning out. The next year or 2 is where the foundations are put into place for stability. The seasons after those are where the team is built. Key players are acquired over time.

We DO NOT have a massive budget to attract the better players from the lower leagues. We need someone who will blood lesser known talent. That is how you do it. JA has a track record of doing it and being involved in it. You, do not, and you seemingly do not understand how it works either.

Doing it as a player has absolutely no relevance to success as a manager. Complete non-argument.

Our squad is the oldest in the league and our spine is 33-35. To put this season down as a transition year is short-sighted and completely contradicts what Carol said in the summer. You're being revisionist, retrospectively lowering pre-season expectations to fall in line with underperformance. 

You keep saying I wouldn't be any better, and I'm happy we've found common ground. Thankfully, I'm not in line to replace Askey, but I think there are better alternatives (Parkinson, for one, who has achieved 10x what Askey has achieved at professional level). Seriously, telling me 'you're not as good as Askey' doesn't refute any of my points as I'm not paid good money to manage a football team. It's a terrible argument. It's a last recourse of someone who has ran out of salient points. 'You can't demand a change of manager as you, average Vale fan, couldn't do better'. It's so weak.

Askey will not blood lesser known talent as a good 15 of his 21 signings have been either poor or unmitigated failures. 

JA has no record for blooding unknown talent. He has 1 promotion in 7 years, which was a great one, but has otherwise finished mid-table in the division below us or been sacked 21 games into his other job. I come back to my previous point; Morecambe operate on probably half of our budget; how are they able to recruit better players? Or is their manager just better than ours? Accrington the same. It's either they are better at signing players with less money, or have a better manager.

I appreciate you've got a strong view and I like you're forthright with it, but the foundations for your view thus far is 'Askey had success as a player, Joe B from OVF wouldn't do any better therefore no one would, and Askey will rebuild the side despite having an abject recruitment record'. It just isn't convincing me to change my view.

All I know is that we're currently lower now than where we were 2 years ago, with largely the same best 11 who have all aged, and Askey has taken us from 18th to 16th. It's not sufficient. 

Edited by Joe B
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Leeds endured a very similar run last season, yet got back on track and won the league by 10 points. Just saying.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, we might as well right this season off promotion-wise, nobody goes up having lost 9 out of their first 19 games. 
That said, a relegation battle doesn’t look out of the question at the moment.
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