Black Lives Matter

[Andyregs]

5 minutes ago, Mario said:

I agree with Sir Geoff Palmer who says "That if you remove statues or street names associated with slavery, in 50 years time you will forget the history of slavery and maybe some racists may be quite happy to take them down because you are taking down your history "

Plaques should be on the statues to educate future generations.

Do you honestly believe that? Sounds like some mental gymnastics involved. Do the racists in America want the confederate statues removed? Is there anything at all to suggest this is true? 

[Davebrad]

12 minutes ago, Joe B said:

You said, and I quote

"we brought them the benefits of the industrial revolution, without these in later years they would have been left behind. Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system."

You did say we civilised those savages. That's exactly what you said.

no I did not... Law and order which got them away from a barbaric system ie cutting a thiefs hand off, stoning people, which was part of their "legal system" for 2-3000yrs...

[Davebrad]

10 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

 

 

I know, it was a question based on what you said, hence the question mark. Keep up.

then in that case it did for the jews involved and the rest of the civilised world...

 

10 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

He was in office for over 20 years.

and that was a merit, was it...

[toyahw]

All lives matter - just a thought.  

[geosname]

25 minutes ago, toyahw said:

All lives matter - just a thought.  

Won't be long before you are told you don't understand.

[toyahw]

6 minutes ago, geosname said:

Won't be long before you are told you don't understand.

I don't know Geo. I've got a lot of Surinamese mates.  I could tell you what they have to say about it. I mean real friends I've had  20 odd years. I would not dare to post their opinion. 

[geosname]

I'm not into statues of any thing/one so my view is slanted accordingly.

Tearing down a statue illegally, without consequence sets a president.

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history, should we tear down the pyramids?

Tearing down the past does not change the future. The future is where the danger lies.

To find solutions to problems you need to identify the problems.

[geosname]

5 hours ago, darren1810 said:

I'm slightly off topic here only slightly. 

I will hold my hands up apart from the killing of Mr Floyd I don't know the immediate minutes before his death. 

What I would say about it and I may be barking up the wrong tree but just who on earth videos something like that for their Facebook or Instagram or whatever without a word of intervention ?

I get against 4 Police officers it's incredibly difficult and I'd imagine frightening. But had they just shouted or approached who knows if the outcome would of been different. Might of made them think maybe ? 

Did the person videoing make any attempt at intervention or ask what on earth they were doing to the bloke or did they just stand there filming ?

The flip side of course is that without the video the truth may never of been known as I'm sure it would of been a cover up job . 

 

If you try to stop/interfere with the police in the EXECUTION of their duty you will find yourself in the same position the alleged perpetrator.

I may be mistaken, I could be confusing videos, I think the police were shouted at.

There are literally thousands of recordings on the internet of police abusing their powers, thankfully not all as serious as the one you speak of.

Quite a number are of numerous police officers on top of an immobile handcuffed individual shouting..... stop resisting..... as they throw punches and kicks at head and body.

They don't care what colour the victim is or what age or sex they are..... in numerous cases they don't even know if a crime has been committed.

[Warren]

Last weekend was totally unacceptable. What most annoyed me is the police being exposed in the face of rioters with inadequate equipment and protection because some so call politically correct senior officers decided they couldn't wear riot gear in case it offended black people. 

I do have sympathy with some of the statue arguments. Liverpool, Bristol and Manchester among many other places received massive development and investment through the slave trade. However, obviously, whilst Churchill was socially conditioned by his upbringing, he more than anyone was responsible for providing the leadership and courage to stop the occupation of the civilized world by the Nazis. And the hooligan who defaced his statue should also be aware that he was an incredibly brave person and highly literate. Whereas said hooligan can't even manage to martyr himself over his vandalism and at least make his case credibly. One remembers Mohammed Ali and his sacrificing his freedom and career to make a stand against the Vietnam war. He was as highly creditable black person as there is. Bit fed up of John Barnes complaining how he can't get a manager's job. That is because he was poor at Tranmere; nothing more. Also abuse of Craig David such that he gave up his career and left the country was OK apparently because it wasn't racist. Well it most certainly didn't look OK to me.

[Andyregs]

9 hours ago, Davebrad said:

then in that case it did for the jews involved and the rest of the civilised world...

The holocaust ‘has a few faults’? But at least they built the autobahn hey!

8 hours ago, toyahw said:

All lives matter - just a thought.  

No one had ever argued they don’t. 

6 hours ago, Warren said:

Last weekend was totally unacceptable. What most annoyed me is the police being exposed in the face of rioters with inadequate equipment and protection because some so call politically correct senior officers decided they couldn't wear riot gear in case it offended black people. 

I do have sympathy with some of the statue arguments. Liverpool, Bristol and Manchester among many other places received massive development and investment through the slave trade. However, obviously, whilst Churchill was socially conditioned by his upbringing, he more than anyone was responsible for providing the leadership and courage to stop the occupation of the civilized world by the Nazis. And the hooligan who defaced his statue should also be aware that he was an incredibly brave person and highly literate. Whereas said hooligan can't even manage to martyr himself over his vandalism and at least make his case credibly. One remembers Mohammed Ali and his sacrificing his freedom and career to make a stand against the Vietnam war. He was as highly creditable black person as there is. Bit fed up of John Barnes complaining how he can't get a manager's job. That is because he was poor at Tranmere; nothing more. Also abuse of Craig David such that he gave up his career and left the country was OK apparently because it wasn't racist. Well it most certainly didn't look OK to me.

Craig David? 

[Iron Curtain]

It’s a really difficult one, I don’t condone violence against the police in the UK at all, and I don’t condone the protests turning into looting. 

Interestingly however, if their kid was getting bullied at school, I can imagine some (Not all) of the people unhappy with the BLM movement would be happy to advise their kid to fight back as the Diplomatic approach gets you know where.

We should be focusing on the bully, not the bullied who cracked.

[eh up nah]

58 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

The holocaust ‘has a few faults’? But at least they built the autobahn hey!

No one had ever argued they don’t. 

Craig David? 

Couldn't have been Craig David

Not on a Sunday

[Regal Beagle]

17 hours ago, Joe B said:

I am very, very impressed with people choosing to die on the hill of a man who traded 84,000 people, with 19,000 dying in transit.

"Oh, I think it should have been removed, but through legal means!"

What do you think people have been trying to do for 20 years, to no avail? People have been protesting its removal since the 90s.

 

Are you happy for your 'opponents' to wield the same power to decide without due process, without permission to destroy landmarks that they claim are offensive and celebratory of evil acts?

 

That's the test here.

 

You are telling us that the criminal act of removing the statue in bristol is justified, can you tell us where the lines are? What sort of crimes are justifiable and what sort are not? What sort of statues, other than slave traders, are problematic and which are fine to remain?

 

As an aside, do you think that a campaign for the lawful removal of the statue would have a higher chance of success if they had of started it last week?

[darren1810]

54 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

The holocaust ‘has a few faults’? But at least they built the autobahn hey!

No one had ever argued they don’t. 

Craig David? 

He's on about Keith Lemon on Bo selecta .

He did send ups of Scary Spice, Craig David and Michael Jackson. Allegedly ruined CD career though I have seen pictures of him with Lemon. 

Whilst people found it offensive and that is their prerogative it also needs to be said that one of the biggest perpetrators of comedy against Black people was our so called National treasure Sir Lenny Henry. 

He did that boring okayyyyyyyyyyyy thing, had a character called Algernon and accentuated the Jamaican accent to a point of ridicule. This same National treasure also said that Black people have stopped being black and are trying to be Will Smith . Is that okay because Henry is black ? 

I've always felt that comedy gets a bad press for its none pc stuff but again others find it offensive. 

You can have your pure offensive like Bernard Manning or you have a more modern offensive about all subjects like Gervais, Jimmy Carr, Frankie Boyle etc 

[Howjy04]

2 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Again moderate white people more obsessed with peace without justice.

Those bemoaning the protests are actually why they were happening in the first place because words of "sympathy" dont change a thing.

Yes, there are some actions that are not acceptable, the attacking of police is not on providing they were not inciting the issue.  I have been in football crowds and witnessed police goading and offering fights...  so dont just assume they were innocent.  Defacing and damaging property is not right but in the case of these statues an exception should be made because again, moderate white people have been "mulling ot over" and using "due process" for 30+ years over them and actually done nothing.

Until some of you understand what this is actually about it will continue.

Some of the comments on this thread are sickening and I guarantee that faced with a group of black people none of you would have the courage of conviction to repeat it in person to them.  You will only voice these opinions from the safety of your anonymous keyboard warrior pseudonyms or among your own like minded white friends and then reassure each other that you arent being racist.

You are, you are being very racist.

Nof,I admire your stance but things are either  right or wrong.I get it about slavetraders but a reminder of the past,which was wrong,should serve to make things better in the future.Do you think it’s ok to have statues of former terrorists ,who changed, in the country?People, instead of pulling statues down, should be gathered around Josiah Wedgwood’s statue and the suchlike and admire what they did to abolish slavetrading.If things haven’t changed in the future and people are protesting about it ,they would still have a focal point if these statues were still there.In Bristol,what is now left?You would hope that this incident re George Floyd would serve to get policing right in the US and to a lesser extent over here.Violence ,whoever is doing it,and looting from people in your own locality is not right, and attacking people who are trying to keep the peace and want peace between people is also wrong.I love my black friends.