Match Thread - Port Vale v Bury

[Heatwave]

Surprisingly I thought Moore did well for them when he came on. Equally the number 7 he replaced had a good first half too.

 

Moore I think is a good player to have around; we didn't see the best of him because of family problems he was experiencing at the time. Now he seems to have sorted his head out I wouldn't mind him back personally.

[Howjy04]

A lot of teams have one winger/speed merchant on one side of the pitch - a player who can dribble with the ball at pace and beat the full back and get to the byline. We don't have one, so one would be a good start.

 

Bury finished the game with two wingers playing, after Moore came on.

 

Man City play with two wingers quite often - Sane and Sterling. They hug the touchline and make the pitch bigger, but are also good enough to cut inside, swap positions and play in other formations.

 

I'm not arguing against the need for another striker (or two!) - first to cover for Pope and second (possibly) to replace Miller. But I still think they need much better service and a quick winger and creative/goalscoring box to box midfielder would help us a lot.

 

Defenders at all levels hate facing pace. That's partly why the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc. are so good - they've got fast players in the final third. We don't have them. Whitfield at his best. Maybe Kanu but he doesn't get a game. After that we have a squad packed with slow players, another reason why we go back and square a lot of the time.

The top sides play with wide forwards with one central striker.Most teams play with 3-5-2/5-3-2,4-3-3 or 4-5-1.Sage,which system would you play at the Vale?

[TheSage]

Good question!

 

Yes, this 4.2.3.1 business does seem to be in vogue. You are right.

 

With the Vale, it's hard to work out which system might suit us best - partly because, for me, we don't have all the right players to fit into the ideal system.

If we did, I quite like 4.4.2 at this level, with one out and out winger and one who can move inside and help central midfield when we don't have the ball.

But if we have two up front it means that they have to be mobile and be able to drop back and help out, a la Foyle and Naylor, who both worked their socks off.

The other formation I like the look of is 3.5.2 because in theory it gives you that extra man in midfield, but it's hard work for the wing backs and you are then relying on the two strikers and at least one midfield player to score all the goals. We don't have a midfield player on the books who is capable of scoring 8-10 goals. Nor a forward, Pope apart, who looks like he might score 10 goals either. Miller has got - what - one league goal is it in three months?

 

Because of all that we are trying to fit round pegs in square holes.

And this lack of goals in the team probably means that at the moment we are better playing 3.5.2 as it gives us a more solid defence.

I suppose Monty might be suited to that role as well, if fit, because he's one of our better players when he's not on the treatment table.

 

Apart from the odd skilful player - like a Mayor or an O'Shea - a lot of the time at this level the ball is in the air and many lads can't pass it very accurately. Hence, the likes of Lincoln pack their team with big, strong lads and play percentages. Not pretty but effective because other teams haven't got the ability and time to get it down and play it on the deck.

[valiant_593]

I’d love us to sign some pacey wingers. Even if you pick a defensive formation if the two wingers are on with pope that’s always a massive threat to the opposition pave scares teams at this level.

[philmpv]

On the apparent need for 'wingers', I think a point that most seem to be overlooking is that we do already have 2 of them, on paper. Granted, Monty is always injured, but we signed Daniels presumably specifically for the purpose of providing width. Given that he has not played for us in the league yet, putting aside his lack of fitness when he reported back for training, this strongly indicates to me that either:

 

1. Daniels is not good enough; or

2. Aspin doesn't want to play with out and out wingers as he thinks they will leave the FB exposed.

[Valiant62]

In every position, it’s about putting a shift in for the team. Clarke is a virtual shoe in these days because he attends to both defensive and attacking duties. Hannant is the same (that’s why he was put at LB against FGR whatever people think about the (overstated) importance of formations.

Players like Rawlinson are next to useless when we have the ball and players like Miller are next to uselass when we don’t. Too many players like that makes us midtable - fine for now but ti shows the way we need to improve. It’s entirely possible we’ll improve in the new year due to some of these lads from non-league having attuned to the demands of League Two. One way or another, Iexpect us to be safe and a flirt with play offs might come to pass in the new year.

[Rampant Zebra]

Unless we get offers for some of them in January of course....

[Paul6754]

In every position, it’s about putting a shift in for the team. Clarke is a virtual shoe in these days because he attends to both defensive and attacking duties. Hannant is the same (that’s why he was put at LB against FGR whatever people think about the (overstated) importance of formations.

Players like Rawlinson are next to useless when we have the ball and players like Miller are next to uselass when we don’t. Too many players like that makes us midtable - fine for now but ti shows the way we need to improve. It’s entirely possible we’ll improve in the new year due to some of these lads from non-league having attuned to the demands of League Two. One way or another, Iexpect us to be safe and a flirt with play offs might come to pass in the new year.

 

It is about players putting a shift in as that is the very least a fan expects from a player donning a Vale shirt but also about having the skills to do the job you're in the team to do.

 

It's more than a tad unfair to say "Rawlinson is next to useless with the ball", granted he's no Bobby Moore with the ball at his feet but Rawlinson's main job is to defend. We saw on Saturday why Leon Legge plays in the lower leagues, he was dominant in the air as usual but his distribution left a bit to be desired but at this level he was still very effective.

 

Also Ricky Miller put a massive and effective shift in on Saturday when he didn't have the ball, football teams defend from the front and Miller and Pope have and do an important job defending from the front. The one thing Ricky Miller didn't get was quality service, something Vale can improve on.

 

IMHO Vale are improving and we will improve further if we can find a Danny Mayor type player.

[windsorvale4ever]

3 points and another clean sheet against a good Bury team who were unbeaten in 7 games. yes first half was great from both teams but I don't think our performance warranted the boos from some fan, there midfield was quality conlon and joyce struggled at times but we defended ok, the 2nd half was brilliant and the result could have gone either way so to come away with a win was a fantastic result, whitfield coming on made us more of a threat and he should have done better with the 1 on 1, what can you say about scott browns save how he got to it I haven't got a clue an amazing save. if we can follow this up with a win against county what a month we've had since the Lincoln result

[valeparklife]

Re the wingers issue. How many teams have we seen in this league that play with two out and out wingers?

 

I'd say most of them unless they use a wingback system.

 

Not having a player that can carry the ball up the pitch means we continually hoof it clear straight to the opposition, then they get another chance to attack us over and over.

[Jacko51]

I'd say most of them unless they use a wingback system.

 

Not having a player that can carry the ball up the pitch means we continually hoof it clear straight to the opposition, then they get another chance to attack us over and over.

 

Wingers who run to the byline and cross?? No way. Wide midfielders yes.

[Upfromnowhere]

Good question!

 

Yes, this 4.2.3.1 business does seem to be in vogue. You are right.

 

With the Vale, it's hard to work out which system might suit us best - partly because, for me, we don't have all the right players to fit into the ideal system.

If we did, I quite like 4.4.2 at this level, with one out and out winger and one who can move inside and help central midfield when we don't have the ball.

But if we have two up front it means that they have to be mobile and be able to drop back and help out, a la Foyle and Naylor, who both worked their socks off.

The other formation I like the look of is 3.5.2 because in theory it gives you that extra man in midfield, but it's hard work for the wing backs and you are then relying on the two strikers and at least one midfield player to score all the goals. We don't have a midfield player on the books who is capable of scoring 8-10 goals. Nor a forward, Pope apart, who looks like he might score 10 goals either. Miller has got - what - one league goal is it in three months?

 

Because of all that we are trying to fit round pegs in square holes.

And this lack of goals in the team probably means that at the moment we are better playing 3.5.2 as it gives us a more solid defence.

I suppose Monty might be suited to that role as well, if fit, because he's one of our better players when he's not on the treatment table.

 

Apart from the odd skilful player - like a Mayor or an O'Shea - a lot of the time at this level the ball is in the air and many lads can't pass it very accurately. Hence, the likes of Lincoln pack their team with big, strong lads and play percentages. Not pretty but effective because other teams haven't got the ability and time to get it down and play it on the deck.

 

Am beginning to sound like an old record here, but what do you expect any of our forwards to do the way we play?

They are getting no service and no support, yet whoever plays, despite knowing that, all of them work their nuts of, chasing and closing down the scraps that our aerial bombardment provides.

In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Whits miss Saturday, and yes I know, the lad should have scored, (certainly from the best chance we have created all season) probably didn't simply because he had forgotten what to bloody do with a real chance, it's been that bloody long since it happened!

Change the tactics, push players forward like all other teams do, and I am convinced with the players we have, the goals will come. Keep the same tactics and the drought will inevitably continue, how can it not?

Yes, by all means feed the Pope (feed anybody!) and most certainly, though we haven't done so for weeks, we bloody should,because he is likely to score yet even Saturday for our winner, we once again didn't do the feeding, that honour went to one of their defenders courtesy of a horribly misplaced pass. Chances are that thin on the ground.

In fact looking back, though they probably have, I can't actually remember the last time any oppo keeper had to make a save, certainly it hasn't in the last four games, and I guess we will just have to agree to differ with our views, as clearly you think it's the forwards fault, whereas I believe it's because as a team, because of the tactics Neil deploys, we are creating zilch for them.

[Emile]

Where’s skinty? No posts from him for a couple of weeks. Strangely, since the last time we lost actually.

 

Only posts when we’re in a meltdown. Time to ban the trolls who feed off negativity!

 

First half was dire but second we were the better side and deserved the win on that basis.

[Upfromnowhere]

Define better team, as that comment amazes me, and I'm certainly no troll. We scored, for sure, due to a cock up, but for 35 minutes of the second half we were just sitting back and inviting them on and were really under the cosh as a consequence, and to the extent that for the last ten minutes their keeper was playing the sweepers role. Are you saying we were the better team because our defense played superbly.

Yes on a rare breakaway when all but one FB they had all pushed on, we really should have doubled our lead, but surely you can't think we were the better team because of that alone. Did you not notice how long they were camped out in our half or penalty area Emile, or does that not count.

We might have been a bit better in the second period than we were in the first, but that was it, and even though I don't really care and will happily take the three points any day of the week, I genuinely have no idea how you either thought we deserved to win or that we were the better team in the second half. Did we watch the same game?

[pjg1876]

Where’s skinty? No posts from him for a couple of weeks. Strangely, since the last time we lost actually.

 

Only posts when we’re in a meltdown. Time to ban the trolls who feed off negativity.

 

Is Micky Ferns barred ?