Brexit again...

[The_godfather]

So criticise Dyson for leaving home and criticise Nissan for going home.

 

Wooooooooosh. Whether deliberate (which I think it is), or accidental, misses the point entirely.

 

Dyson has been mendacious, talking up, and then leaving when it suits.

 

Nissan have been open from the start. (The Japanese government have been open from the start) about the dangers of Brexit, and have now decided to go. Ascribe it to whatever you like (drop in diesel purchases, etc); without the utter current chaos, and complete uncertainty about the future this would not have happened. Repeat, it would not have happened.

 

The real reason this is happening - regardless or not whether there is No Deal, or a Deal, is that all trust in the government as competent, and Britain as a place to do business. And I'm well aware that 6 weeks ago, Britain was voted first in Forbes' Best Countries for Business 2019. Let me quote you from Forbes own analysis:

 

Despite the uncertainty surrounding Brexit, the United Kingdom ranked first for the second straight year on the strength of its workforce, innovation and lack of red tape.

 

That would be a workforce that is complemented, supplemented, and supplied by EU freedom of movement which has now been curtailed.

Innovation that is at risk from not being able to attract either investment, or potentially, the right people from overseas to be part of the teams that are coming up with it.

A lack of red tape, which has apparently been holding back the British economy while in the EU this whole time...

 

Wake up people, wake up.

[Aussie Rules]

Well Nissan are making their next 4x4 in Japan rather than Sunderland. Who needs jobs?

 

Shame really, but I read recently that Nissan were going back to Japan anyway and Brexit gave them a better reason/excuse.

[geosname]

Wooooooooosh. Whether deliberate (which I think it is), or accidental, misses the point entirely.

 

Dyson has been mendacious, talking up, and then leaving when it suits.

 

Nissan have been open from the start. (The Japanese government have been open from the start) about the dangers of Brexit, and have now decided to go. Ascribe it to whatever you like (drop in diesel purchases, etc); without the utter current chaos, and complete uncertainty about the future this would not have happened. Repeat, it would not have happened.

 

The real reason this is happening - regardless or not whether there is No Deal, or a Deal, is that all trust in the government as competent, and Britain as a place to do business. And I'm well aware that 6 weeks ago, Britain was voted first in Forbes' Best Countries for Business 2019. Let me quote you from Forbes own analysis:

 

Despite the uncertainty surrounding Brexit, the United Kingdom ranked first for the second straight year on the strength of its workforce, innovation and lack of red tape.

 

That would be a workforce that is complemented, supplemented, and supplied by EU freedom of movement which has now been curtailed.

Innovation that is at risk from not being able to attract either investment, or potentially, the right people from overseas to be part of the teams that are coming up with it.

A lack of red tape, which has apparently been holding back the British economy while in the EU this whole time...

 

Wake up people, wake up.

 

It was deliberate....... but relative I think..... as for Dyson it's a business, they go where the best deals and profit are..... there is no patriotism in profit.

As someone has stated Nissan could be going because of the new Japanese EU agreement.... there is no loyalty in profit.

If I had business in the UK and found access to a larger market, with lower or no tariffs, cheaper Labour costs, lower production costs and tax benefits.... I would be gone.

It's not the prime motivation of a business to create jobs in the UK... it's to make a profit... that's all it's there for... anything else is a side issue and probably in the government's remit.

I do not trust individual MPs, any collective group of MPs and especially the government.

Parliament was given a mandate to exit the EU, they have screwed it up monumentally.

Should we have voted remain? Yes. But we didn't.

Should we have another referendum? No for 2 reasons.

1 it goes against the will of the people, or at least the majority... that is dangerous.

2 if we did it would have to be on the same two options, in or out, and what would/could we do if the answer was the same... no options, no payments, no agreements, no giveaways, nothing?

490 Mps from all parties voted to leave in March... 490... no deals, no agreements, no payments... just leave... if they wanted inclusions... like no deal or agreements why didn't they vote it down until they were included?... then they have the testicular fortitude to say trust us we know what we are doing.

Part of the right are saying we know what we are doing, here is the (crap) deal.... the other part are saying no that's not a deal it's a fudge and a giveaway.... The left don't know what they are saying, except no and we don't know what we want but we know what we don't want but we will tell you what we want after a general election... the liberals are trying to cash in on the split to get some votes, any votes so they aren't irrelevant... and the SNP have a single agenda of splitting the UK.

Will leaving be a disaster?

I don't think it will.... it will shake the markets and the pound as any uncertainty does, they are confidence based, the slightest inkling of doubt or uncertainty and they tend to react... usually adversely.

[The_godfather]

It was deliberate....... but relative I think..... as for Dyson it's a business, they go where the best deals and profit are..... there is no patriotism in profit.

As someone has stated Nissan could be going because of the new Japanese EU agreement.... there is no loyalty in profit.

If I had business in the UK and found access to a larger market, with lower or no tariffs, cheaper Labour costs, lower production costs and tax benefits.... I would be gone.

It's not the prime motivation of a business to create jobs in the UK... it's to make a profit... that's all it's there for... anything else is a side issue and probably in the government's remit.

I do not trust individual MPs, any collective group of MPs and especially the government.

Parliament was given a mandate to exit the EU, they have screwed it up monumentally.

Should we have voted remain? Yes. But we didn't.

Should we have another referendum? No for 2 reasons.

1 it goes against the will of the people, or at least the majority... that is dangerous.

2 if we did it would have to be on the same two options, in or out, and what would/could we do if the answer was the same... no options, no payments, no agreements, no giveaways, nothing?

490 Mps from all parties voted to leave in March... 490... no deals, no agreements, no payments... just leave... if they wanted inclusions... like no deal or agreements why didn't they vote it down until they were included?... then they have the testicular fortitude to say trust us we know what we are doing.

Part of the right are saying we know what we are doing, here is the (crap) deal.... the other part are saying no that's not a deal it's a fudge and a giveaway.... The left don't know what they are saying, except no and we don't know what we want but we know what we don't want but we will tell you what we want after a general election... the liberals are trying to cash in on the split to get some votes, any votes so they aren't irrelevant... and the SNP have a single agenda of splitting the UK.

Will leaving be a disaster?

I don't think it will.... it will shake the markets and the pound as any uncertainty does, they are confidence based, the slightest inkling of doubt or uncertainty and they tend to react... usually adversely.

 

Geo, I'd like to say I admire, or at least respect your attempts at explanation, but I really struggle to do even that, as I cannot begin to understand where the hell you are coming from. They always say, put yourself in the other person's shoes, but I don't fancy getting so many splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence. For someone that purports to think Remain would be a better option, you do a tremendous job, let's call it a 'Cameron', of explaining Leave.

 

You validated my point in your explanation. Most people don't expect business to be patriots over profiteers, but they don't have to be so unduly manipulative when in a position of prominence, as Dyson is. The problem is not the leaving in and of itself, but the manner.

 

And it's a strange coincidence of timing though, is it not? Dyson, Nissan, Sony, Panasonic... If only the UK had, as you put it:

 

access to a larger market, with lower or no tariffs, cheaper Labour costs, lower production costs and tax benefits

 

I also need to correct you on 2 points.

 

Firstly, that Parliament has screwed up the mandate to Leave. That is not true. If Parliament (which I'm assuming you used deliberately to distinguish from the Government) has the mandate, then the Government (who have driven the policy and negotiation, and have tried, and failed to negate any influence Parliament has had on procedures) have failed the mandate. Parliament's failure is to successfully hold the Government to account.

 

Secondly, it is not true to say that 490 Mps from all parties voted to leave in March... 490... no deals, no agreements, no payments... just leave.... Go back, and if you don't know, look up what Article 50 is, and what it means. If you were right, and if that had been the case, why did the government spend the next 18 months negotiating a Withdrawal Agreement, which is, in itself, essentially just the section titles, with TO BE FILLED IN LATER in the body of the text, i.e. over the next 3 years? The sad truth is that some thought that the government would have a plan, some didn't care, some were caught up in the spirit of the thing, and some had (and still have) no f*cking idea what they are doing.

 

How can you honestly say something like - I don't think it will be a disaster, even though markets, which are a general index, will tank??

 

Finally, advocating that a 2nd referendum 1 it goes against the will of the people, or at least the majority... that is dangerous.

 

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Do you know what I think is dangerous? Talk of:

 

Food shortages

Medicine shortages

Preparing the army to go onto the street to keep the peace

 

Quite happy to **** off a few people to prevent that.

[Regal Beagle]

duplicate post

[Regal Beagle]

Wooooooooosh. Whether deliberate (which I think it is), or accidental, misses the point entirely.

 

Dyson has been mendacious, talking up, and then leaving when it suits.

 

Nissan have been open from the start. (The Japanese government have been open from the start) about the dangers of Brexit, and have now decided to go. Ascribe it to whatever you like (drop in diesel purchases, etc); without the utter current chaos, and complete uncertainty about the future this would not have happened. Repeat, it would not have happened.

 

The real reason this is happening - regardless or not whether there is No Deal, or a Deal, is that all trust in the government as competent, and Britain as a place to do business. And I'm well aware that 6 weeks ago, Britain was voted first in Forbes' Best Countries for Business 2019. Let me quote you from Forbes own analysis:

 

Despite the uncertainty surrounding Brexit, the United Kingdom ranked first for the second straight year on the strength of its workforce, innovation and lack of red tape.

 

That would be a workforce that is complemented, supplemented, and supplied by EU freedom of movement which has now been curtailed.

Innovation that is at risk from not being able to attract either investment, or potentially, the right people from overseas to be part of the teams that are coming up with it.

A lack of red tape, which has apparently been holding back the British economy while in the EU this whole time...

 

Wake up people, wake up.

 

You do know that as a sovereign nation we can decide who we want to come to this country?

 

There's no reason brexit will prevent us from attracting the required workforce and in fact it should actually remove barriers and open up spots for talented people from the rest of the world.

 

We can also introduce or remove any red tape that we want.

 

I know what I'm asking for (what the majority voted for) is a crazy idea, but it would be wonderful if this country had control of its own destiny.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Why are leavers so opposed to a second referendum? They keep going on about how important democracy is and how 'the people have spoken' (although it's funny how their passion for democracy allows them to overlook criminal cheating on their part) so you'd surely think that they'd welcome a chance for the people to speak again?

[geosname]

Geo, I'd like to say I admire, or at least respect your attempts at explanation, but I really struggle to do even that, as I cannot begin to understand where the hell you are coming from. They always say, put yourself in the other person's shoes, but I don't fancy getting so many splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence. For someone that purports to think Remain would be a better option, you do a tremendous job, let's call it a 'Cameron', of explaining Leave.

 

You validated my point in your explanation. Most people don't expect business to be patriots over profiteers, but they don't have to be so unduly manipulative when in a position of prominence, as Dyson is. The problem is not the leaving in and of itself, but the manner.

 

And it's a strange coincidence of timing though, is it not? Dyson, Nissan, Sony, Panasonic... If only the UK had, as you put it:

 

access to a larger market, with lower or no tariffs, cheaper Labour costs, lower production costs and tax benefits

 

I also need to correct you on 2 points.

 

Firstly, that Parliament has screwed up the mandate to Leave. That is not true. If Parliament (which I'm assuming you used deliberately to distinguish from the Government) has the mandate, then the Government (who have driven the policy and negotiation, and have tried, and failed to negate any influence Parliament has had on procedures) have failed the mandate. Parliament's failure is to successfully hold the Government to account.

 

Secondly, it is not true to say that 490 Mps from all parties voted to leave in March... 490... no deals, no agreements, no payments... just leave.... Go back, and if you don't know, look up what Article 50 is, and what it means. If you were right, and if that had been the case, why did the government spend the next 18 months negotiating a Withdrawal Agreement, which is, in itself, essentially just the section titles, with TO BE FILLED IN LATER in the body of the text, i.e. over the next 3 years? The sad truth is that some thought that the government would have a plan, some didn't care, some were caught up in the spirit of the thing, and some had (and still have) no f*cking idea what they are doing.

 

How can you honestly say something like - I don't think it will be a disaster, even though markets, which are a general index, will tank??

 

Finally, advocating that a 2nd referendum 1 it goes against the will of the people, or at least the majority... that is dangerous.

 

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Do you know what I think is dangerous? Talk of:

 

Food shortages

Medicine shortages

Preparing the army to go onto the street to keep the peace

 

Quite happy to **** off a few people to prevent that.

 

I'm not trying to explain anything... just a general very abridged opinion over the whole sorry mess

[Fosse69]

You do know that as a sovereign nation we can decide who we want to come to this country?

 

There's no reason brexit will prevent us from attracting the required workforce and in fact it should actually remove barriers and open up spots for talented people from the rest of the world.

 

We can also introduce or remove any red tape that we want.

 

I know what I'm asking for (what the majority voted for) is a crazy idea, but it would be wonderful if this country had control of its own destiny.

The world has moved on since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

[Regal Beagle]

Why are leavers so opposed to a second referendum? They keep going on about how important democracy is and how 'the people have spoken' (although it's funny how their passion for democracy allows them to overlook criminal cheating on their part) so you'd surely think that they'd welcome a chance for the people to speak again?

 

It's pointless for 2 very important reasons.

 

1. We've already voted. This is quite a big one. We were told that whatever the outcome, the Government would implement it. Therefore brexit must now be implemented.

 

2. Leave would win by an even bigger margin so it would be pointless.

[Regal Beagle]

The world has moved on since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

 

Don't know what point you are trying to make.

[Fosse69]

Don't know what point you are trying to make.

We had an empire then, could tell people what to do or send a gunboat. Nowadays we have to agree rules with everyone, form groups, etc. All this sovereignty is a load of tosh, all it means is taking rights off our own people.

[Regal Beagle]

We had an empire then, could tell people what to do or send a gunboat. Nowadays we have to agree rules with everyone, form groups, etc. All this sovereignty is a load of tosh, all it means is taking rights off our own people.

 

Empires have nothing to do with it.

 

The British Government serves Britain, it makes zero sense to sign away decision making authority to people who don't live here, work here and do not represent us.

 

We are gaining significant rights, not losing them.

[tommytunstall]

If you voted to leave, did you expect to be in the mess we are now, did you want No deal, Partly in the Customs union, Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, Norway option. I think the main point of the referendum is not to overturn the decision but decide how we want to leave.

[Fosse69]

If you voted to leave, did you expect to be in the mess we are now, did you want No deal, Partly in the Customs union, Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, Norway option. I think the main point of the referendum is not to overturn the decision but decide how we want to leave.

Surely it should have been done before Article 50 not after the can kicking started. I cant see much progress in the next few years either.