Brown is NOT the answer!

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

To be fair Dave, they had a man prepared to throw millions at it.

We have a man who allegedly puts 80k a month in and asks us to all bow down to his generosity.

 

Still a bucket load more than anyone else ever has in the clubs history. That said we certainly shouldn't be bowing down to anyone, ideally he needs to create a dream with a forward thinking manager that fans will piggy back on the dream of.

[Yukon]

I disagree,Browny deserves a chance.

 

How exactly? That's the same attitude that lumped us with Page's dirge. Brown is a shoddy, easy, unambitious option.

 

Brown hasn't done anything except be a player and bit part coach. Let's face it, if he wasn't good enough in June then he's not now because he will have learnt the square root of **** all from Bruno and Smith.

[sheffieldclayhead]

Brown is our only option lets be realistic, we have a large squad and even if some are on low wages the overall wage bill with the sum of all parts will be high. We need to ship a few out but who will buy, the best we can hope for is some follow Bruno by their own accord. We need to strengthen in areas where good proven players cost so my point being do we pay for additional quality players OR a quality proven manager as I think we dont have money for both. I would go for quality players. If we are relegated then its down to the decisions made in summer NOT the decisions made in January, the gamble did not pay off and we may need to pay the price for that gamble.

[carpetman123]

Brown is our only option lets be realistic, we have a large squad and even if some are on low wages the overall wage bill with the sum of all parts will be high. We need to ship a few out but who will buy, the best we can hope for is some follow Bruno by their own accord. We need to strengthen in areas where good proven players cost so my point being do we pay for additional quality players OR a quality proven manager as I think we dont have money for both. I would go for quality players. If we are relegated then its down to the decisions made in summer NOT the decisions made in January, the gamble did not pay off and we may need to pay the price for that gamble.

 

Norman has said many times that if the 'gamble' doesn't come off that he would cover that NOT the club!!

At least he has had the guts to gamble ok it blew up in his face all part of the learning curve me thinks...nobody has said running a football club is easy otherwise everybody would get promoted its a chance industry getting all the parameters to align perfectly i would love to see our so called 'experts' on here who on a daily basis love to Knock the Chairman!!!

why don't we encourage instead of critisise all the time after all we all want the Promotion prize at the end of the day!!

[CAVALIER]

Good point. Well he's got 27 days to sort it hasn't he. If not we've had it . Now's the time to show his worth

[Ben]

QUOTE=CAVALIER;690585]Good point. Well he's got 27 days to sort it hasn't he. If not we've had it . Now's the time to show his worth

 

It took you long enough to show yours and more than 27 days.

[Yukon]

Norman has said many times that if the 'gamble' doesn't come off that he would cover that NOT the club!!

At least he has had the guts to gamble ok it blew up in his face all part of the learning curve me thinks...nobody has said running a football club is easy otherwise everybody would get promoted its a chance industry getting all the parameters to align perfectly i would love to see our so called 'experts' on here who on a daily basis love to Knock the Chairman!!!

why don't we encourage instead of critisise all the time after all we all want the Promotion prize at the end of the day!!

 

It's one thing constantly knocking the chairman but you're the polar opposite. He could take a slash on your lap before kick off and you'd consider it a good move on his part

[Essex Vale]

If the Chairman is covering the additional costs around the poor decisions made all connected with the appointment of Bruno Ribiero, then all credit to the Chairman for accepting his responsibility and using his resources to put it right. I applaud such an action subject to the caveat below.

 

We do need to be careful that this is not simply racked up as a director's loan though. For it to be genuine covering of costs, it would need to be a capital investment.

[Fosse69]

Still a bucket load more than anyone else ever has in the clubs history. That said we certainly shouldn't be bowing down to anyone' date=' ideally he needs to create a dream with a forward thinking manager that fans will piggy back on the dream of.[/quote']Also as I remember it they were mainly at the bottom of the 4th due to points deductions and were usually a steady 3rd Div team, still a tremendous achievement though.

 

Edit: Very strange REP, I commented on a different post about Bournemouth being at the bottom of the 4th.

[Essex Vale]

For me, Norman has to make a decision this week. Whoever the manager will be needs to have the January window to improve the squad. If its Brown's until the end of the season then let him get on with recruitment, otherwise a new man needs to be ASAP in order to get most of the window.

#

I agree with this summary. Whoever is to be our manager for the rest of the season needs to be appointed now and to have the January window to do their business. The longer we wait the more unfair we are being to Michael Brown and the less helpful we will be to whoever gets the job.

[stupers]

We do need to be careful that this is not simply racked up as a director's loan though. For it to be genuine covering of costs, it would need to be a capital investment.

 

Director loans has been an investment vehicle for many chairman in the past (Abramovich for example). It's not a simple case of loans (Bad) and capital (Good) for many, many reasons.

 

There's not many chairman that will be willing to smash that type of capital in to a club, the main reason that if it really goes t*** up and we went out of business, Smurf would be liable for creditors for the value of the capital he holds in the club. If he loans the money to the business, then he doesn't have the liability of having to pay out again if the club goes out of business and he joins the line of creditors, presumably knowing he wouldn't get much of his cash back. And that's why nobody really invests capital in football clubs anymore.

 

That said, I understand your concern. But it's unlikely to be one that Smurf will take on board.

[Essex Vale]

Director loans has been an investment vehicle for many chairman in the past (Abramovich for example). It's not a simple case of loans (Bad) and capital (Good) for many, many reasons.

 

There's not many chairman that will be willing to smash that type of capital in to a club, the main reason that if it really goes t*** up and we went out of business, Smurf would be liable for creditors for the value of the capital he holds in the club. If he loans the money to the business, then he doesn't have the liability of having to pay out again if the club goes out of business and he joins the line of creditors, presumably knowing he wouldn't get much of his cash back. And that's why nobody really invests capital in football clubs anymore.

 

That said, I understand your concern. But it's unlikely to be one that Smurf will take on board.

 

Stupers, I agree your summary. When Brighton ended up losing their ground I am pretty sure that part of the issue was a Directors loan, secured against the ground and the then Chairman sold the land for development and cashed in his loan. If our Chairman is genuinely going to cover the cost of these decisions then it would be helpful to know how he intends to do it.

 

More loans add to our financial vulnerability, and I struggle to see how we are covering costs with out current gates and income levels.

 

Let us see what happens but I think we are all a little concerned.

[Iron Curtain]

nobody has said running a football club is easy

 

Yes they have... Norman said it in front of a room full of Fans. His actual words were that running Port Vale was easier than running Stoke Audi because they have a bigger revenue.

 

I cringed when he said it.

 

I'm not questioning his passion. But I, along with a number of others are very concerned about his decisions and actions. He doesn't know what he is doing. And unfortunately he won't admit it.

 

Taking a gamble is one thing, but this was above and beyond. And as has been mentioned more eloquently than I could put it, how is he funding this gamble. Something worries me about his directors loans. he is covered by these backed against the asset of the ground.

 

Therefore the gamble for him was neutral at worst.

 

For the fans however... well I fear we are about to see what the worst case scenario is!

 

Norman is dangerous in my opinion. Very very dangerous!

[stupers]

Stupers, I agree your summary. When Brighton ended up losing their ground I am pretty sure that part of the issue was a Directors loan, secured against the ground and the then Chairman sold the land for development and cashed in his loan. If our Chairman is genuinely going to cover the cost of these decisions then it would be helpful to know how he intends to do it.

 

More loans add to our financial vulnerability, and I struggle to see how we are covering costs with out current gates and income levels.

 

Let us see what happens but I think we are all a little concerned.

 

Me too, I get it completely. However there are only two problems with a directors loan.

 

1)If he decides to start charging interest on his loans. That would be a big disaster. I doubt he is doing that at the moment. He would be crazy to do that.

 

2)If he decides to call in his debt at some point then we are in trouble.

 

Two big issues, however neither of them are a concern to me in the short and medium term. I think he's here for a while yet and it would be madness to implement point 1 so I can't see either happening. When he decides to sell up then the question around whether he gets all his loans repaid is the big question. I've always maintained he'd have to take a hit on his 'investment' return at that point to sell the club. He was reluctant to do that last time, hence why he's still here. That's the big sticking point for me, but I see it as a concern for the future. I think he's hoping (and so do I!) that we're in a position at that point that the asking price for the club covers his director loans.

 

I don't think Smurf would dump us in the brown stuff. Despite some of the daftness, his heart is in the right place.

[sheffieldclayhead]

Norman has said many times that if the 'gamble' doesn't come off that he would cover that NOT the club!!

At least he has had the guts to gamble ok it blew up in his face all part of the learning curve me thinks...nobody has said running a football club is easy otherwise everybody would get promoted its a chance industry getting all the parameters to align perfectly i would love to see our so called 'experts' on here who on a daily basis love to Knock the Chairman!!!

why don't we encourage instead of critisise all the time after all we all want the Promotion prize at the end of the day!!

 

I do not see anywhere in my post where I 'knock' the chairman. If indeed he is putting the amounts of money in as stated per month AND will cover the gamble he took on Bruno I am worried that cash flow (his and the Vale's) will become an issue. Norman may be a wealthy man but football clubs eat wealth. I like that Norman wears his heart on his sleeve but I do think the PR gaffs and so called 'gambles' seem to indicate that money on an experienced football exec would be well spent.

 

The next few days will be very interesting but isnt it always with the Vale.