Option for DOF or similar role

[Alfie1962]

3 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

I get the point, but it's a bit 'backward' to the way many modern clubs recruit now. Because of manager turnover in particular, generally the best run sides have an 'identity' and recruit towards that (managers and players included). 

Of course that's what DF was supposed to do but somehow managed to dictate a wingback system and provide us with no wingbacks, and some of our best youth prospects being wingers.

So DM running the show might not be great if he didn't work out, because of the turnover needed when a new manager comes in who has a different approach. 

Saying that, Moore's shown himself to be more flexible than I imagined with team shape and set up, he doesn't seem to have an identity at all. So I'm really not sure whether to be convinced DM would be the right person to drive recruitment or not.

I think DM needs to be flexible with the group of players he as got at his disposal. He needs to change players, systems to try and get the points he requires. No doubt with his own players he would have his own system like at Shef Wed.

[Rockape99]

On 25/03/2024 at 17:53, Playa Amodores said:

Pv1973, the released list will be very short as the majority are under contract for another twelve months, I can’t see us having the money to pay up their contracts. None of them have covered themselves in any glory this season so I can’t see us being able to sell them. As I said previously, I think we’ll need to strengthen even if relegated, so the best thing would be to try and get some of these lay abouts out on loan. 

The question is how many of 2 year contracts  have relegation release clauses in there agreed contracts. I bet Ben G and Ripley have as they are the only ones worth keeping 

[PV1973]

2 hours ago, Rockape99 said:

The question is how many of 2 year contracts  have relegation release clauses in there agreed contracts. I bet Ben G and Ripley have as they are the only ones worth keeping 

They all should have a clause about a salary reduction if we go down. Usually it’s around a 25% cut. 

[Playa Amodores]

On 24/03/2024 at 11:45, Brian Johnson said:

Why do people keep saying Colin Garlick?

What he does in football is completely different to what a Director of Football or some kind of recruitment placement.

It's like saying the nurse that takes care of you in hospital should also carry out your operation

Brian, due to nhs cutbacks they do. Obviously nothing major but they’re given a different title, other than nurse. The wonders of upskilling. I’d let the receptionist do everything because when you speak to them, they think they’re the font of all knowledge on medical issues.

Edited March 27 by Playa Amodores
.

[Playa Amodores]

3 hours ago, Rockape99 said:

The question is how many of 2 year contracts  have relegation release clauses in there agreed contracts. I bet Ben G and Ripley have as they are the only ones worth keeping 

🙏🏽

[Essex Vale]

On 25/03/2024 at 15:58, Alan Vit said:

Martin Foyle was a star as a player and is a star as a person, a genuine Vale legend who is always welcome at the club.

But the suggestion that "Martin Foyle would be a good head of recruitment" either wasn't around for the 2007-2008 season or has wiped it from their memory.

Sorry to make people relive the pain, but have a read about the recruitment for that season ...
 

2007–08 Port Vale F.C. season - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

Yes that is a fair point.  However, in theory they were all good signings. Rocastle had a good pedigree and reputation, as did Edwards.  Tudor had ripped us apart at Orient and Miller also had a good pedigree.  None of them worked out agreed, but at the time they were signed we were all pretty content.  Perhaps they did not work out so well because Martin was not the ideal manager to get the best out of them.

We need to look at all of the Tinman's signings.  Other signings for us that were not so bad, Dean Smith, Nathan Lowndes, Robin Hulbert. Mark MacGregor, 

Signings who were more than ok, Marc Richards, Leon Constantine, Akpo Sodje, Luke Rodgers, Danny Whittaker, Danny Sonner, Tony Dinning, Paul Harsley..  Any of those strikers or midfielders would walk into our team right now.  All of that lot cost us in the order of £50,000 in total.

To sum up someone's success at recruitment you need to look at the big picture not just one small period in the calendar.  The great John Rudge signed some awful players, signings is a percentage game.  Overall, Martin Foyle's record is decent.  

So with respect, I was around in 2007, and have been around watching Vale for over 60 years and my memory is pretty damn good.

[wotsyobeef]

Don't worry. Flitcroft always worked "three windows in advance". So we'll have loads of players lined up...

Unfortunately whilst identifying players to sign we didn't entertain the fact we might be signing players for league 2

[wotsyobeef]

Does anyone know if Moore has been a manager without a DOF or similar at any of his previous clubs?

[Bede]

2 hours ago, Essex Vale said:

Yes that is a fair point.  However, in theory they were all good signings. Rocastle had a good pedigree and reputation, as did Edwards.  Tudor had ripped us apart at Orient and Miller also had a good pedigree.  None of them worked out agreed, but at the time they were signed we were all pretty content.  Perhaps they did not work out so well because Martin was not the ideal manager to get the best out of them.

We need to look at all of the Tinman's signings.  Other signings for us that were not so bad, Dean Smith, Nathan Lowndes, Robin Hulbert. Mark MacGregor, 

Signings who were more than ok, Marc Richards, Leon Constantine, Akpo Sodje, Luke Rodgers, Danny Whittaker, Danny Sonner, Tony Dinning, Paul Harsley..  Any of those strikers or midfielders would walk into our team right now.  All of that lot cost us in the order of £50,000 in total.

To sum up someone's success at recruitment you need to look at the big picture not just one small period in the calendar.  The great John Rudge signed some awful players, signings is a percentage game.  Overall, Martin Foyle's record is decent.  

So with respect, I was around in 2007, and have been around watching Vale for over 60 years and my memory is pretty damn good.

Jesus - I'd long resigned David Rocastle to the Alzheimer's part of my brain.  Thanks for dredging that one back!  Like a helicopter missing its tail rotor.

[JRC]

22 minutes ago, Bede said:

Jesus - I'd long resigned David Rocastle to the Alzheimer's part of my brain.  Thanks for dredging that one back!  Like a helicopter missing its tail rotor.

I suspect Craig Rocastle is still buried deep in your brain 🤔

[Bede]

Just now, JRC said:

I suspect Craig Rocastle is still buried deep in your brain 🤔

Haha, thankfully some of it still in there!  Thank you.  

[Alan Vit]

3 hours ago, Essex Vale said:

Yes that is a fair point.  However, in theory they were all good signings. Rocastle had a good pedigree and reputation, as did Edwards.  Tudor had ripped us apart at Orient and Miller also had a good pedigree.  None of them worked out agreed, but at the time they were signed we were all pretty content.  Perhaps they did not work out so well because Martin was not the ideal manager to get the best out of them.

We need to look at all of the Tinman's signings.  Other signings for us that were not so bad, Dean Smith, Nathan Lowndes, Robin Hulbert. Mark MacGregor, 

Signings who were more than ok, Marc Richards, Leon Constantine, Akpo Sodje, Luke Rodgers, Danny Whittaker, Danny Sonner, Tony Dinning, Paul Harsley..  Any of those strikers or midfielders would walk into our team right now.  All of that lot cost us in the order of £50,000 in total.

To sum up someone's success at recruitment you need to look at the big picture not just one small period in the calendar.  The great John Rudge signed some awful players, signings is a percentage game.  Overall, Martin Foyle's record is decent.  

So with respect, I was around in 2007, and have been around watching Vale for over 60 years and my memory is pretty damn good.

Yes and equally those are fair points.

As you say, in earlier seasons Foyley did sign some decent players at good value fees.

So yes the big picture of his signings is more positive than his last 2007-2008 season suggests.

[Paul6754]

13 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

I get the point, but it's a bit 'backward' to the way many modern clubs recruit now. Because of manager turnover in particular, generally the best run sides have an 'identity' and recruit towards that (managers and players included). 

Of course that's what DF was supposed to do but somehow managed to dictate a wingback system and provide us with no wingbacks, and some of our best youth prospects being wingers.

So DM running the show might not be great if he didn't work out, because of the turnover needed when a new manager comes in who has a different approach. 

Saying that, Moore's shown himself to be more flexible than I imagined with team shape and set up, he doesn't seem to have an identity at all. So I'm really not sure whether to be convinced DM would be the right person to drive recruitment or not.

NW9, my posts on this subject are purely hypothetical given Vale's current situation but similar processes have been used in the past at other clubs with great success eg Clough/Taylor etc.

Yes it may be a "backward step" or more "A return to the past" but I'm interested in what may work for PVFC. In my working life I lost count of the times new technologies/methodologies were introduced to significantly change the way we worked or the process but they rarely did.

Your 2nd paragraph highlights the possible fault of the current system whereas having the manager of the 1st team dictate the players he wants/tactics  ought prevent this happening although there's other stuff involved  eg money. 

I think it's a weakness that a club has an "Identity" which I presume means a way of playing with the result that recruitment is solely aimed at playing one style eg 3 at the back. IMHO much better to recruit with some flexibility in mind, keep your opponents guessing.

[Hitcher]

I was thinking about the concept of a new manager bounce and how part of it is new ideas, new tactics, new motivation etc but also part of it is to do with players getting a blank slate, new position in team, new chance to gain better contract etc.

With recruitment and contracts basically being a DoF thing, we might have missed out on that part of the bounce with Moore. Hoping this proves to be true but now Flitcroft is gone, means that every player has that fresh start. At the moment all the power is with Moore so hopefully they are busting a gut for him and not burdened by any previous pecking order stuff with Flitcroft plans. It did kind of feel different in the Burton game. Hopefully it continues.

 

[rob1983]

Yes that is a fair point.  However, in theory they were all good signings. Rocastle had a good pedigree and reputation, as did Edwards.  Tudor had ripped us apart at Orient and Miller also had a good pedigree.  None of them worked out agreed, but at the time they were signed we were all pretty content.  Perhaps they did not work out so well because Martin was not the ideal manager to get the best out of them.
We need to look at all of the Tinman's signings.  Other signings for us that were not so bad, Dean Smith, Nathan Lowndes, Robin Hulbert. Mark MacGregor, 
Signings who were more than ok, Marc Richards, Leon Constantine, Akpo Sodje, Luke Rodgers, Danny Whittaker, Danny Sonner, Tony Dinning, Paul Harsley..  Any of those strikers or midfielders would walk into our team right now.  All of that lot cost us in the order of £50,000 in total.
To sum up someone's success at recruitment you need to look at the big picture not just one small period in the calendar.  The great John Rudge signed some awful players, signings is a percentage game.  Overall, Martin Foyle's record is decent.  
So with respect, I was around in 2007, and have been around watching Vale for over 60 years and my memory is pretty damn good.

Dean Smith and hulbert need to be added to the awful signings list aswell!