General Erection - 12th December 2019

[geosname]

30 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Here we go.  Its absolute pathetic poppycock to suggest that any Scot who voted SNP didnt vote for them to back the major policy of an Indy Ref 2.  Its arguing for arguments sake and trying to make a point that doesnt exist.  It's also a useful tactic to pretend this is the case to refuse acknowledging that Scotland has a very good case to vote again.  

You miss the simple fact that it isn't their choice to vote again.

You are making the assumption that everyone who voted SNP wants to leave the union, even if that were somehow correct they got 45% of the votes cast, that wouldn't pass the remainers test.

5.5 million population...... 1.2 million voted SNP...... 1.5 million voted differently..... if that was a vote to leave they lost.

[Howjy04]

41 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Here we go.  Its absolute pathetic poppycock to suggest that any Scot who voted SNP didnt vote for them to back the major policy of an Indy Ref 2.  Its arguing for arguments sake and trying to make a point that doesnt exist.  It's also a useful tactic to pretend this is the case to refuse acknowledging that Scotland has a very good case to vote again.  

Why?

[Jacko51]

56 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Here we go.  Its absolute pathetic poppycock to suggest that any Scot who voted SNP didnt vote for them to back the major policy of an Indy Ref 2.  Its arguing for arguments sake and trying to make a point that doesnt exist.  It's also a useful tactic to pretend this is the case to refuse acknowledging that Scotland has a very good case to vote again.  

It could be that a lot of Scots voted SNP because they were a strong Remain party.

[TheSage]

My concern as I've said before is that with a hard or even a no deal Brexit we could be witnessing the beginning of the break-up of the United Kingdom. With a border down the Irish Sea and more nationalists than unionists now it makes a united Ireland more of a possibility. The Scots wanted to stay in the EU and we can't keep turning down their desire for another vote now that their circumstances have changed. It's interesting to ponder - are the Scots keener on the UK or on the EU?

A lot of English nationalists on here have already said that they'd be quite happy to see these things happen. I wouldn't. We are stronger united and have historical ties that go back through the centuries. I think of myself as British not as English and my ancestors came from Ireland and from Europe. Breaking up the UK is a terrible thing to contemplate in my opinion.

[Howjy04]

20 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Why what?

Why has the SNP got a right to keep asking?

[Howjy04]

21 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Maybe.

I do find it interesting though that folk seem to accept that the election result reinforces the Brexit position but the SNP result doesnt reinforce the Indy Ref position.  Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

2 Referendums ,Brexit and Scot Indy.The complainers are the losers.

[Howjy04]

47 minutes ago, TheSage said:

My concern as I've said before is that with a hard or even a no deal Brexit we could be witnessing the beginning of the break-up of the United Kingdom. With a border down the Irish Sea and more nationalists than unionists now it makes a united Ireland more of a possibility. The Scots wanted to stay in the EU and we can't keep turning down their desire for another vote now that their circumstances have changed. It's interesting to ponder - are the Scots keener on the UK or on the EU?

A lot of English nationalists on here have already said that they'd be quite happy to see these things happen. I wouldn't. We are stronger united and have historical ties that go back through the centuries. I think of myself as British not as English and my ancestors came from Ireland and from Europe. Breaking up the UK is a terrible thing to contemplate in my opinion.

Have a word with Sturfry,Sage.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

My concern as I've said before is that with a hard or even a no deal Brexit we could be witnessing the beginning of the break-up of the United Kingdom. With a border down the Irish Sea and more nationalists than unionists now it makes a united Ireland more of a possibility. The Scots wanted to stay in the EU and we can't keep turning down their desire for another vote now that their circumstances have changed. It's interesting to ponder - are the Scots keener on the UK or on the EU?

A lot of English nationalists on here have already said that they'd be quite happy to see these things happen. I wouldn't. We are stronger united and have historical ties that go back through the centuries. I think of myself as British not as English and my ancestors came from Ireland and from Europe. Breaking up the UK is a terrible thing to contemplate in my opinion.

It is a bad idea mate.... but..... and it's a brexit reference but..... if they ask for a vote.... Boris gives them a vote..... they vote to leave..... why should we stop them? It's a democratic decision no matter how much of a bad idea it is. It doesn't mean we have to make the transition easy.

[For Us All]

On 15/12/2019 at 02:39, Aussie Rules said:

Sadly Geo, Labour has been doing a good job of splitting itself wide open post Blair, and unless it reinvents its identity to regain the political heartland it will always remain an 'also ran' in UK politics.  

Never been the same since Ed Miller Band handed the party over to Momentum?

[Aussie Rules]

37 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Never been the same since Ed Miller Band handed the party over to Momentum?

It's scary Tony, scary that so many in today's Labour  Party still hold onto the idea that socialism is the bees knees for Britain's economic and social well-being.

Have they not learned from history? Have they not read Orwell's 'The Road to Wigan Pier'?

If they had they would have known that the good people of the UK - in the North in particular - yearned for a fairer social contract, not socialism. 

I'm guessing Tony, that 75 years on from Orwell's narrative there were fears held by many that Corbyn et al was still waging (as Jean alluded to above) a class war grounded in socialism.

Yes Tony, socialism is still a scary concept. 

[philpvfc]

3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Maybe.

I do find it interesting though that folk seem to accept that the election result reinforces the Brexit position but the SNP result doesnt reinforce the Indy Ref position.  Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

If they hadn’t have had a referendum in 2016 they certainly should be given a one but just 4 years later to have another once in a lifetime referendum is a bit much. And to say all those who voted SNP want to leave the U.K. is just stupid, I reckon if they do have another referendum Scotland will vote to stay in the Union.

[bobvale]

1 hour ago, For Us All said:

Never been the same since Ed Miller Band handed the party over to Momentum?

I have already pointed out that momentum didn't even exist until after Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the labour party. I truely believe that the majority on her have no idea whatsoever about what momentum is and what it does. People seem to have some silly fantasy idea that momentum are thugs or extreemists when in reality they are basicly the youth wing of the labour party. Its strange that the same people who insult momentum are usualy the same people who think it is oh so witty to make up silly names for labour politics people.

[Regal Beagle]

Of the 10 doctors elected, 8 stood for the conservative party.

 

A sign that even the nhs trusts the tories with the nhs over labour? 

[geosname]

22 minutes ago, bobvale said:

I have already pointed out that momentum didn't even exist until after Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the labour party. I truely believe that the majority on her have no idea whatsoever about what momentum is and what it does. People seem to have some silly fantasy idea that momentum are thugs or extreemists when in reality they are basicly the youth wing of the labour party. Its strange that the same people who insult momentum are usualy the same people who think it is oh so witty to make up silly names for labour politics people.

It didn't exist as a registered organisation until after he was elected but it came together after his nomination.... their words not mine.

[Bycarsbill]

22 minutes ago, bobvale said:

I have already pointed out that momentum didn't even exist until after Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the labour party. I truely believe that the majority on her have no idea whatsoever about what momentum is and what it does. People seem to have some silly fantasy idea that momentum are thugs or extreemists when in reality they are basicly the youth wing of the labour party. Its strange that the same people who insult momentum are usualy the same people who think it is oh so witty to make up silly names for labour politics people.

It's not all cuddly, young & soft. It's an extreme grouping created by Jon Lansman, a self-confessed communist  who is even older than me.  I am personally delighted they've now got their hands on all the levers of power within Labour ranks as their brand of idealistic, but ultimately naive student  politics if allowed to continue calling the shots will keep Labour out in the wilderness for many years to come!