General Erection - 12th December 2019

[Jacko51]

53 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

I doubt it but feel voters should be made to show ID, there was a lot of second voting going on in the election and allowing others to use their vote. Most other countries use ID at the balloting stations. Doing nothing wrong then no problem.

Don't disagree with that.  Voters in Northern Ireland have to show photographic ID before they get their ballot paper.  I went to vote having not received a polling card - took my passport but it wasn't required.  I could have been anybody.

[bobvale]

jacko, I agree about the election to an extent. I think labour had many own goals and a different leader would have perhaps done better. But regarding Brexit, I am not sure what position labour could have chosen that led to anything apart from defeat. Is there a difference between blameing something and having it as a reason? The media hates Corbyn, just as it hated brown and milliband before him and Kinnock before them. the anti-Semitism was massive lies mostly. Corbyn, although I would have preferred a different leader gave hope to many many younger people and I notice that I am perhaps alone amongst my friends in not hateing the man. I have never in my lifetime seen so many youngsters so excited about a politics person in this country and I think that is a good thing. I do not want labor to be moderate. I except that jermey corbyns lost twice but I think even those losings shows that there is a hunger for something different and (you will roll your eyes at me now mate) if it weren't for Brexit and the lies I don't think the result would have been as disasterus as it was. that isn't to say that I am using those as excuses but I think they swayd the vote and the terrible result does not have to mean we throw away the left in favour of the right. If vale played 442 on a boggy pitch (because they hadn't paid the grounds man) and without any fans (because we forgot to open the gates) and lost, that doesn't mean that 442 is the wrong system and should never be played again if you see what I mean my friend.

[Jacko51]

How do you expain the even worse performance of Labour in the Euro elections under him?? 

[bobvale]

I think we had leavers hateing us and the people who wanted to stay that hated us too. I think Jeremy Corbyn was trying to be in the middle but Brexit is like the vale, it is black and white. 

[Regal Beagle]

8 hours ago, For Us All said:

Some bitter losers on here?

Remember 2-3 months ago when we kept asking why Corbyn didn't want an election?

 

"to remove no deal from the table first" we were told.

 

Laughable really.

 

[Regal Beagle]

4 hours ago, Joe B said:

Corbyn's party got more votes because the population and electorate is bigger now than it was 14 years ago. This is obvious:

Votes won - Blair 2005: 9.5m Corbyn 2019: 10.3m. Increase of 800,000

% won - Blair 2005: 40%, Corbyn 2019: 32%

Votes cast overall: 2005: 27.1m, 2019: 31.8m.

So despite 4.7 million more votes being cast in Corbyn's election than Blair's, he only secured 800,000 more vores (or 17% of the increased voting turnout).

Holding up raw numbers without demographic context is simply absurd.

Corbyn was the fundamental reason Labour lost. Tony Blair, with his myriad faults (though if anyone bothered to read the Chilcott Report they would see he was too trusting of flawed intelligence in order to support the US, as opposed to some genocidal war criminal), is the most electorally successful leader Labour has had and far more of a positive impact on people's lives than Corbyn, who essentially ran a highly unsuccessful pressure group for 4 years.

Agreed Joe, this is more a rejection of Corbyn than a victory for Boris (although it feels like both to me!)

[geosname]

1 hour ago, bobvale said:

I think we had leavers hateing us and the people who wanted to stay that hated us too. I think Jeremy Corbyn was trying to be in the middle but Brexit is like the vale, it is black and white. 

I doubt it had much to do with hate and more to do with telling the people what they should want and even if they didn't Labour would give it to them.... the fact they didn't like jezza didn't help.

[Warren]

The Labour supporters who changed their world view and voted Conservative saved the country from an unmitigated catastrophe with Corbyn and his left wing momentum supporters.  That is my experience from having a front seat view for 6 years of militant tendency in Liverpool in the 80's and 90's auditing and regulating that council. Thank you. I hope you get a viable leader in return. 

[Aussie Rules]

11 hours ago, bobvale said:

I worry that he wil change democracy. he has shown that he is not afraid of changing the system and cheating and being against the law. what is to stop him passing a law that says they can have 10 years rather than 5, or that voters need to show driving licenses? this government and its election campain has shown that boris Johnstone has no respect for the right thing to do. he has also shown this in his writing for the papers and the magazines and also in his private life. I am afraid for our country and our children's children.

Right now UK democracy is fragile consequence, for the most part, of the Brexit years. However, I doubt Boris will test the electorate on 10 year terms. He's top of the heap and enjoying the political limelight. It is my thinking that once Brexit is done and dusted, and his name is secure in the pages of history, he'll be wanting to retire to write his autobiography.

In the meantime he will need to keep an eye on the enemy within his own 'Party. Yes, once his 'Honeymoon' is over the not so friendly political knives will out for him.

[geosname]

I think IF the people of this country have finally woken up to the power they have politicians of all parties are in for a hard time, not just Labour.

IF the mould of traditional voting has finally been broken and the voters have finally realised they do have power and control all political parties should start to quake in their boots at what could follow.

IF they continue to think the political world revolves around London and the rest of the country is a wasteland they could find that they are correct and the only seats they get are in London.

It would become impossible to go beyond a single term if they don't honour their manifesto. Misbehaving individual politicians would be punished by their constituents not their party. Everything they do on the public's behalf would be judged by the people they represent. Parties would be judged by their actions not the colour of the rosette they wear.

Sadly I doubt it will happen...... but we can dream.

[geosname]

12 hours ago, bobvale said:

I think we had leavers hateing us and the people who wanted to stay that hated us too. I think Jeremy Corbyn was trying to be in the middle but Brexit is like the vale, it is black and white. 

If leavers don't want you and remainers don't want you, at some point you have to realise you have a fundemental flaw.

Labour had increased voting in the previous election because they promised to honour the result of the referendum..... remainers didn't like it..... when they broke that promise leavers didn't like it.... is it any wonder neither side trusted Labour?

If you can't trust a party on a major issue the size and importance of brexit how can you trust anything they promise?...... add in the other issues and you get the slaughter that unfolded.

Labour has the direction of a stepped helix and it's on a downward path.

[Aussie Rules]

3 hours ago, geosname said:

I think IF the people of this country have finally woken up to the power they have politicians of all parties are in for a hard time, not just Labour.

IF the mould of traditional voting has finally been broken and the voters have finally realised they do have power and control all political parties should start to quake in their boots at what could follow.

IF they continue to think the political world revolves around London and the rest of the country is a wasteland they could find that they are correct and the only seats they get are in London.

It would become impossible to go beyond a single term if they don't honour their manifesto. Misbehaving individual politicians would be punished by their constituents not their party. Everything they do on the public's behalf would be judged by the people they represent. Parties would be judged by their actions not the colour of the rosette they wear.

Sadly I doubt it will happen...... but we can dream.

Dare we not hope the mold is broken Geo i.e. that of voting the same as generations before us?

Maybe we will find out in 5 years time.

 

[geosname]

35 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

Dare we not hope the mold is broken Geo i.e. that of voting the same as generations before us?

Maybe we will find out in 5 years time.

 

That's all we have after an election mate

[Bycarsbill]

3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I suppose you lot believe that Niges potential knighthood has nothing to do with standing down in Tory held seats...

The UK is going to hell in a hand cart.

As opposed to going to hell on an express train if Labour had got in?

[geosname]

3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I suppose you lot believe that Niges potential knighthood has nothing to do with standing down in Tory held seats...

The UK is going to hell in a hand cart.

Don't particularly care about farage.

We probably are...... but at a slower rate than if jezza had won..... according to the electorate.