Match Thread - Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[Wrex]

You want him gone, why wouldn’t the players?

 

Why would the players purposefully play badly to get Aspin gone? He plays the same team every week!

 

Here are the options:

 

1) Try to win and keep Aspin in a job. Keep getting picked, keep getting new contracts, keep being a professional footballer.

2) Try to lose to get Aspin sacked. Get dropped either by Aspin or a new manager who wants to play a different way with his own players. No one signs you because you've been crap for a poor League Two side and you end up unemployed.

[Howjy04]

Yesterday was certainly a game of 2 halves.

 

First half, we played relatively well, with both Whits and Manny looking threatening. We deserved to go in at least level, which we did.

 

Second half, we were disgraceful across the board. Putting Monty at LB was simply wrong, and then moving Whits out to the left took him out of the game completely. Neither of the subs worked at all.

 

Pope had another very poor game. He won nothing in the air, and did his usual berating of his team mates throughout the game. He's a lucky man, a very lucky man, to get a 2 year deal at his age on his level of ability now.

 

The irony, for me (and this is just my opinion), is that Pope's presence is actually the reason why we don't score many goals, and rarely look threatening going forward. He has zero pace, zero mobility, and is unable to purposely direct any header that he wins outside of the box. Therefore, any ball (lumped or not) that is even a yard away from him he is unable to get to. When he does actually get the ball, it either bounces off his bonce with no direction at all or, if he magically does manage to control it and lay it off to a team mate, the ball has to be held up further up the pitch to give Pope time to get into the box, since he cannot run! This cancels any positive momentum created by him winning the ball in the first place. You look at most other teams that we play against and they also tend to lump the ball forward, the difference being that their front man/men are able to run the channels, win the ball further up the pitch, lay it off and then make a short run into the box. Pope can't do any of this. Whist got in behind so many times in the first half yesterday, only to have no option in the middle owing to Pope still ambling towards the penalty area.

 

For me, Pope has to be dropped and something different tried. A front 3 of Whits, Kanu and Miller has the potential to create havoc for opposition defenders and take certainly the central defenders out of their comfort zone (which Pope certainly fits into) with their pace and movement.

 

People will no doubt cry and scream about how Pope has done in the past. So what? 'He scored x amount 5 years ago' etc? Do they count now? No, they don't. He has been poor this season, very poor, and I honestly believe that he is the reason why we have no threat going forward for 89 minutes of every game.

 

 

 

Welcome to the small club that actually watch the games and make a fair ,critical

observation.A perfect example was Whitfield trying to score from an impossible angle because he had no one to pull the ball back to.Don’t expect any better for the next two and half years,Phil.

[Erniemossrules]

Yesterday was certainly a game of 2 halves.

 

First half, we played relatively well, with both Whits and Manny looking threatening. We deserved to go in at least level, which we did.

 

Second half, we were disgraceful across the board. Putting Monty at LB was simply wrong, and then moving Whits out to the left took him out of the game completely. Neither of the subs worked at all.

 

Pope had another very poor game. He won nothing in the air, and did his usual berating of his team mates throughout the game. He's a lucky man, a very lucky man, to get a 2 year deal at his age on his level of ability now.

 

The irony, for me (and this is just my opinion), is that Pope's presence is actually the reason why we don't score many goals, and rarely look threatening going forward. He has zero pace, zero mobility, and is unable to purposely direct any header that he wins outside of the box. Therefore, any ball (lumped or not) that is even a yard away from him he is unable to get to. When he does actually get the ball, it either bounces off his bonce with no direction at all or, if he magically does manage to control it and lay it off to a team mate, the ball has to be held up further up the pitch to give Pope time to get into the box, since he cannot run! This cancels any positive momentum created by him winning the ball in the first place. You look at most other teams that we play against and they also tend to lump the ball forward, the difference being that their front man/men are able to run the channels, win the ball further up the pitch, lay it off and then make a short run into the box. Pope can't do any of this. Whist got in behind so many times in the first half yesterday, only to have no option in the middle owing to Pope still ambling towards the penalty area.

 

For me, Pope has to be dropped and something different tried. A front 3 of Whits, Kanu and Miller has the potential to create havoc for opposition defenders and take certainly the central defenders out of their comfort zone (which Pope certainly fits into) with their pace and movement.

 

People will no doubt cry and scream about how Pope has done in the past. So what? 'He scored x amount 5 years ago' etc? Do they count now? No, they don't. He has been poor this season, very poor, and I honestly believe that he is the reason why we have no threat going forward for 89 minutes of every game.

 

What a load of [email protected] is the only reason we stayed in the league last year and is well worth his 2 yr contract.

Every week he is bullied and hammered by two centre backs because opposition teams know he is the danger man liable to score goals.Yesterday he was up against Peter Clark who is an experienced championship and div 1 centre half and took it in turns with the other centre back to kick lumps out of him.He was obviously frustrated by being man handled all the time but still tried to score.At least with Whitfield and Monty up front with him we had more of a threat.

Aspin spoiled this by moving Monty to left back and Whitfield out on the left wing from the centre.

Then bringing on that Donkey Quigley made matters worse.

To get anywhere we need another quick player up front with Pope to feed off him and take the pressure off him.

[Howjy04]

I rest my case.

[Erniemossrules]

Yesterday was certainly a game of 2 halves.

 

First half, we played relatively well, with both Whits and Manny looking threatening. We deserved to go in at least level, which we did.

 

Second half, we were disgraceful across the board. Putting Monty at LB was simply wrong, and then moving Whits out to the left took him out of the game completely. Neither of the subs worked at all.

 

Pope had another very poor game. He won nothing in the air, and did his usual berating of his team mates throughout the game. He's a lucky man, a very lucky man, to get a 2 year deal at his age on his level of ability now.

 

The irony, for me (and this is just my opinion), is that Pope's presence is actually the reason why we don't score many goals, and rarely look threatening going forward. He has zero pace, zero mobility, and is unable to purposely direct any header that he wins outside of the box. Therefore, any ball (lumped or not) that is even a yard away from him he is unable to get to. When he does actually get the ball, it either bounces off his bonce with no direction at all or, if he magically does manage to control it and lay it off to a team mate, the ball has to be held up further up the pitch to give Pope time to get into the box, since he cannot run! This cancels any positive momentum created by him winning the ball in the first place. You look at most other teams that we play against and they also tend to lump the ball forward, the difference being that their front man/men are able to run the channels, win the ball further up the pitch, lay it off and then make a short run into the box. Pope can't do any of this. Whist got in behind so many times in the first half yesterday, only to have no option in the middle owing to Pope still ambling towards the penalty area.

 

For me, Pope has to be dropped and something different tried. A front 3 of Whits, Kanu and Miller has the potential to create havoc for opposition defenders and take certainly the central defenders out of their comfort zone (which Pope certainly fits into) with their pace and movement.

 

People will no doubt cry and scream about how Pope has done in the past. So what? 'He scored x amount 5 years ago' etc? Do they count now? No, they don't. He has been poor this season, very poor, and I honestly believe that he is the reason why we have no threat going forward for 89 minutes of every game.

 

What a load of [email protected] is the only reason we stayed in the league last year and is well worth his 2 yr contract.

Every week he is bullied and hammered by two centre backs because opposition teams know he is the danger man liable to score goals.Yesterday he was up against Peter Clark who is an experienced championship and div 1 centre half and took it in turns with the other centre back to kick lumps out of him.He was obviously frustrated by being man handled all the time but still tried to score.At least with Whitfield and Monty up front with him we had more of a threat.

Aspin spoiled this by moving Monty to left back and Whitfield out on the left wing from the centre.

Then bringing on that Donkey Quigley made matters worse.

To get anywhere we need another quick player up front with Pope to feed off him and take the pressure off him.

Just a question who would you play up front?

[philmpv]

What a load of [email protected] is the only reason we stayed in the league last year and is well worth his 2 yr contract.

Every week he is bullied and hammered by two centre backs because opposition teams know he is the danger man liable to score goals.Yesterday he was up against Peter Clark who is an experienced championship and div 1 centre half and took it in turns with the other centre back to kick lumps out of him.He was obviously frustrated by being man handled all the time but still tried to score.At least with Whitfield and Monty up front with him we had more of a threat.

Aspin spoiled this by moving Monty to left back and Whitfield out on the left wing from the centre.

Then bringing on that Donkey Quigley made matters worse.

To get anywhere we need another quick player up front with Pope to feed off him and take the pressure off him.

I met my financial target at work last year. Does that matter one jot to my employers if I fail this year?

 

Question - if you were bouncing a ball against a wall and it kept bursting, would you carry on buying a new ball and bouncing them against the same wall with the same result?

[philmpv]

What a load of [email protected] is the only reason we stayed in the league last year and is well worth his 2 yr contract.

Every week he is bullied and hammered by two centre backs because opposition teams know he is the danger man liable to score goals.Yesterday he was up against Peter Clark who is an experienced championship and div 1 centre half and took it in turns with the other centre back to kick lumps out of him.He was obviously frustrated by being man handled all the time but still tried to score.At least with Whitfield and Monty up front with him we had more of a threat.

Aspin spoiled this by moving Monty to left back and Whitfield out on the left wing from the centre.

Then bringing on that Donkey Quigley made matters worse.

To get anywhere we need another quick player up front with Pope to feed off him and take the pressure off him.

Just a question who would you play up front?

Sorry and in response to your question I actually answered that in my original post.

[blackdog]

Like many, so angry was I yesterday, though it best to comment only after measured reflection, something overnight that perhaps our skipper would have been advised to do.

We can all blame the chairman for many things, and he certainly makes it easy to do so, and for the fans perspective, pointing the finger of blame in his direction on many issues, has become expediently fashionable, and in many instances rightly so. But am sorry, as much as we would all want to see a new owner, he can't be blamed for this turgid dross being served up on the pitch week after week. Yes, he did appoint Aspin, but at the time, was it not an appointment that met with nearly universal approval?

 

We were all to happy to ignore the numerous warnings and prophecies of footballing doom aired from our friends at Gateshead, because frankly, in Aspin, the player, Aspin the legend, we trusted. On reflection, how foolish were we to do so, because in truth, what we are now being subjected to, and I choose that word very carefully, is not football, not as I know it, and even the most sycophantic and happy clapping Aspin supporter, even if they refuse to do so publicly, will agree, and enough is enough.

 

Putting aside, square pegs in round holes, continuing with the same players even when so many are playing so poorly, lack of any creativity, offensive desire and or lack of any chances made,apparent fall out with players, continuing run of dire results and worse, the performances that contribute to those results. Let's even ignore how many times Aspin stands in front of a microphone telling us all that the performances are unacceptable, but simultaneously never doing anything about it, and or worse, simultaneously never taking responsibility for any of it.

 

The fact is, if he doesn't walk away now, which seems unlikely, and or if Smurf doesn't immediately force his hand, we are now in genuine danger of playing the likes of Maidstone and Borehamwood next year and if at all possible, that can't be allowed to happen, we have to get in a new manager and we have to get him in now. Will by doing so, it guarantee our safety, will it inject some new excitement or positivity into the club and team?

No of course it won't, but the flip side of that, is that there is certainly more chance of that being the case than it would be if Neil continues.

 

Some are insisting we need stability (one, though surely a wind up, suggested we should wait five years before judging him!!!)but what in 15 months, rhetorically asked what has changed?

We were promised entertaining football, but given the opposite, we were told when he's made his mark squad wise it will lead to consistency and improved results, but guess what, it hasn't. Performances are getting demonstrably worse not better, and the stats during his tenure, normally the yard stick for the longevity of any manager makes for quite humiliating reading. Mourinho was sacked with a winning match ratio of 57%, yet Neil with what, 18%/19% is still clinging onto his job, no wonder we are so utterly frustrated.

 

His post match comments yesterday, suggest he knows he is a dead man walking, and for such a legend, the lack of fire, or even enthusiasm was extremely hard to listen to. However, as a pragmatist and for the good of the club, we (and Smurf) have to ignore that, have to take out the emotion and sadness we must surely all feel listening to such a proud man almost broken by the disappointment of it all, and do whats best for the club, especially as the clear lack of passion and fire demonstrated has clearly affected not just by the body language of the players but their performances.

How on earth players of the ability of Manny, Monty, Pope, Clarke and the like, so badly, and now so consistently, under perform to the level we now witness. What is, or has, Aspin done to them, to make them play so badly?

 

Some supporters are even suggesting they are doing so purposely, in some kind of contrived attempt to hasten his exit, what a load of old tosh. No professional footballer, even at our level would do that surely. However it is sadly incontestable, individually and collectively that the majority (Brown apart)are playing way beneath their capabilities, and am afraid, that is down, as a recent thread suggested, to the manager and the apparent lack of his man management and or motivation abilities, and the sooner he goes the better it will hopefully be. This can't continue.

 

A brilliant summing up of the current dreadful situation we once gain find ourselves in.

[valiantastic]

we definitely don’t look like a side that has a direction, we have some good players in this side, if we had a bit of leadership and direction we’d pick up more points but week in week out it looks like a team thrown together and told to just play. i don’t see what gibbo has done to warrant the constant overlooking. half time i felt that if we were to change the. bring Gibbo on and push Clark to Left Back and play Gibbo Right Back as Montano was giving playing well on the right. we lost that directness and pace and i think it’s time that Aspin realises Montano is not a defender he is a winger. i hope that 2019 is a lot better and if the manager can’t sort this problem then the players amongst them sort it themselves

[Valiant!]

Why would the players purposefully play badly to get Aspin gone? He plays the same team every week!

 

Here are the options:

 

1) Try to win and keep Aspin in a job. Keep getting picked, keep getting new contracts, keep being a professional footballer.

2) Try to lose to get Aspin sacked. Get dropped either by Aspin or a new manager who wants to play a different way with his own players. No one signs you because you've been crap for a poor League Two side and you end up unemployed.

 

Already explained! the one’s playing have mates who aren’t, they moan about not being picked which gets into the ones playing heads, they all think they are better than they are (pope included! Who thinks it’s everyone else’s fault he doesn’t score, throwing his arms around like a bell end !!) consequently poor performances from most because there mostly weak mentally.

[Wrex]

Already explained! the one’s playing have mates who aren’t, they moan about not being picked which gets into the ones playing heads, they all think they are better than they are (pope included! Who thinks it’s everyone else’s fault he doesn’t score, throwing his arms around like a bell end !!) consequently poor performances from most because there mostly weak mentally.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever. In football you look after one person, yourself. If you're going to go on strike because your mate is in the bench then you won't even make it as a good anatuer standard.

 

The players might think Aspin is clueless because he refuses to play Gibbons for example, and consequently they lose faith in his tactics and ganeplan and go out thinking they're going to lose. But if that's the case then who is to blame for that?

[Valiant!]

That makes no sense whatsoever. In football you look after one person, yourself. If you're going to go on strike because your mate is in the bench then you won't even make it as a good anatuer standard.

 

The players might think Aspin is clueless because he refuses to play Gibbons for example, and consequently they lose faith in his tactics and ganeplan and go out thinking they're going to lose. But if that's the case then who is to blame for that?

 

For me, the players! Who I have said,are mentally weak which is another reason why they are playing for a lower league 2 club, and on less money than say, Lincoln, Mk, Newport etc players?

[Upfromnowhere]

I was with you all the way until these two sentences which, in a way, contradict each other. Regarding professional footballers deliberately playing poorly to get rid of managers, ask Paul Pogba or some of the Leicester City squad when Ranieri was near the end of his tenure.

 

The point I was trying to make on that PJ was that we have many players who are dreadfully under performing, and in these past, 4,5,6 games in particular, and I cant believe they are suddenly doing so deliberately.

Nor do I feel, as a 'generalisation' that the levels of effort they are putting in have dropped on purpose either, but I would contend, more because in a team, perennial destined for lower to middle half of the table finishes, they clearly aren't being motivated or man managed to ensure they do.

 

One other point, and would be interested in the views of others here, is that as a squad, we look so much slower, and am loathe to say this, less fit than nearly all the teams we are playing. Forget tactics and what NA actually wants or does work on during the week, having your players as fit as you can make them one would assume is a minimum prerequisite, and the fact that at times we look a long way off the pace is another huge concern, and am wondering, if true, how much it contributes to our current performances?

[Wrex]

For me, the players! Who I have said,are mentally weak which is another reason why they are playing for a lower league 2 club, and on less money than say, Lincoln, Mk, Newport etc players?

 

Well I'd say evaluating if a player is mentally strong enough or will fit in well enough to a squad is a part of the recruitment process. It's a fair arguement to say a manager needs time to build his own squad, but unfortunately Aspin's signings don't seem to be any better than the ones he inherited.

 

I said elsewhere that Luton Town manager Nathan Jones said that any kind of behaviour problems was a red line for him and he would never sign such a player. His team have gone from struggling in League Two to flying high in League One within two years. He would never have signed Ricky Miller.

[PV1973]

Already explained! the one’s playing have mates who aren’t, they moan about not being picked which gets into the ones playing heads, they all think they are better than they are (pope included! Who thinks it’s everyone else’s fault he doesn’t score, throwing his arms around like a bell end !!) consequently poor performances from most because there mostly weak mentally.

Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Football is a very selfish game. To make it any level and to make a living out of it takes mental strength.