Match Thread - Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[Upfromnowhere]

What a strange paragraph. There’s the problem with our creative players though. Set up a team defensively like in the majority of recent games, leaving only 4 mobile players in the starting 11 (Manny, Monty, Conlon, Hannant) and everything rests on their shoulders to do something, then we’re knackered when they play poorly. It’s not about getting the ball and running at people to beat them. It’s also about team movement and options, players in the right position who know there jobs and can support attacks. With everything resting on those 4 players it severely limits us. We go out looking like a Sunday side with no pattern of play, like it’s a free for all. Chuck as many “creative” players as you want on the pitch, as we currently stand we won’t do anything because we don’t play around or through those players with any kind of pattern.

 

 

You’ve mentioned it more than once as our one problem. I go to the games so I dont know what’s being said on the radio during them. Our problems run a lot deeper than just players not delivering quality balls all the time. Don’t you agree?

 

 

I know what goes on day to day with training yes.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that how we set up and play is right for the players we have and gets the best out of them? If all those players are on the pitch you also need movement, patterns of play and support Around them. Honestly we do not drill the players in terms of their specific roles within our set up. We have no preferred way of setting up and the players dont know how we will set up til Thursday before a game, sometimes Friday. That shows because we are constantly changing personnel and tweaking our formation. Surely the basis of a strong side is a solid foundation in how we will set up and play within that formation? We’re 5 months in to the season and we’re still tinkering around. Players roles within that should be second nature with tailored training around how we play and set up. That doesn’t happen.

 

Also by the end of the game Monty was left back, Whitfield left wing, Hannant centre midfield. Players out of position again.Worrall was on having not played for months, (hopefully he gets another chance instead of being cast aside). Quigley is ineffective. The changes killed us. Even though I think Monty had a decent first half, is he really a right winger though? No because he can’t get down the line to deliver with his right. On the other side Vassell won’t go forward and Hannant had a bit of an off day too. Even Clark didn’t contribute much going forward either, so we’re effectively hamstrung again relying on 4 players to do something positive and get the ball in to Pope. It is plain as day that we have no plan of what we are going to do other than try to hit Pope. But if that’s the plan we need more bodies around him. We all know the Vale way of playing, can you say the same with this team?

 

 

I’d say lack of direction. Lack of consistency in team selections and formations. First half they targeted Vassell and it was working for them, getting behind him and causing problems. He looked totally lost. 2 goals (directly and indirectly) came from them using the space behind Clark again, one of which saw them switch play with that great diagonal over Montys head for the third.

 

 

 

Yes of course lumping it to Pope is our only tactic. When it doesn’t work what do we do? Teams have been nullifying Pope recently and as a result we have no plan B. But even with plan A we don’t get bodies up around him. How often do we concede position either through lumping it to Pope or by not having enough movement for us to keep the ball. We played to Whitfields strengths in that first half. Give him a free role and let him do what he wants. Then he got switched to left wing and it totally killed his game off.

 

I want to see exciting players going down the wing. I want to see full backs overlapping at the right times. I want to see a midfield runner breaking the lines to go past our own forwards to get on the end of something. If we play to Pope i want to see him laying it backwards and sideways to players providing options. Triangles of play in tight areas. I just want to see us play like it looks like we know what we’re doing, like we have a plan that players buy into, because at the moment I don’t think they do.

 

There's actually a lot of very good sense in there.

[Heatwave]

What a strange paragraph. There’s the problem with our creative players though. Set up a team defensively like in the majority of recent games, leaving only 4 mobile players in the starting 11 (Manny, Monty, Conlon, Hannant) and everything rests on their shoulders to do something, then we’re knackered when they play poorly. It’s not about getting the ball and running at people to beat them. It’s also about team movement and options, players in the right position who know there jobs and can support attacks. With everything resting on those 4 players it severely limits us. We go out looking like a Sunday side with no pattern of play, like it’s a free for all. Chuck as many “creative” players as you want on the pitch, as we currently stand we won’t do anything because we don’t play around or through those players with any kind of pattern.

 

 

You’ve mentioned it more than once as our one problem. I go to the games so I dont know what’s being said on the radio during them. Our problems run a lot deeper than just players not delivering quality balls all the time. Don’t you agree?

 

 

I know what goes on day to day with training yes.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that how we set up and play is right for the players we have and gets the best out of them? If all those players are on the pitch you also need movement, patterns of play and support Around them. Honestly we do not drill the players in terms of their specific roles within our set up. We have no preferred way of setting up and the players dont know how we will set up til Thursday before a game, sometimes Friday. That shows because we are constantly changing personnel and tweaking our formation. Surely the basis of a strong side is a solid foundation in how we will set up and play within that formation? We’re 5 months in to the season and we’re still tinkering around. Players roles within that should be second nature with tailored training around how we play and set up. That doesn’t happen.

 

Also by the end of the game Monty was left back, Whitfield left wing, Hannant centre midfield. Players out of position again.Worrall was on having not played for months, (hopefully he gets another chance instead of being cast aside). Quigley is ineffective. The changes killed us. Even though I think Monty had a decent first half, is he really a right winger though? No because he can’t get down the line to deliver with his right. On the other side Vassell won’t go forward and Hannant had a bit of an off day too. Even Clark didn’t contribute much going forward either, so we’re effectively hamstrung again relying on 4 players to do something positive and get the ball in to Pope. It is plain as day that we have no plan of what we are going to do other than try to hit Pope. But if that’s the plan we need more bodies around him. We all know the Vale way of playing, can you say the same with this team?

 

 

I’d say lack of direction. Lack of consistency in team selections and formations. First half they targeted Vassell and it was working for them, getting behind him and causing problems. He looked totally lost. 2 goals (directly and indirectly) came from them using the space behind Clark again, one of which saw them switch play with that great diagonal over Montys head for the third.

 

 

 

Yes of course lumping it to Pope is our only tactic. When it doesn’t work what do we do? Teams have been nullifying Pope recently and as a result we have no plan B. But even with plan A we don’t get bodies up around him. How often do we concede position either through lumping it to Pope or by not having enough movement for us to keep the ball. We played to Whitfields strengths in that first half. Give him a free role and let him do what he wants. Then he got switched to left wing and it totally killed his game off.

 

I want to see exciting players going down the wing. I want to see full backs overlapping at the right times. I want to see a midfield runner breaking the lines to go past our own forwards to get on the end of something. If we play to Pope i want to see him laying it backwards and sideways to players providing options. Triangles of play in tight areas. I just want to see us play like it looks like we know what we’re doing, like we have a plan that players buy into, because at the moment I don’t think they do.

 

You going to apply for the job when it comes up 1973? You talk a good game. Unfortunately being a team manager is a lot more than that.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that Aspo should either stay or go, but on whatever we do now hangs Port Vale FC's existence as a Football League club.

[darren1810]

Forusall . I do think it matters at our level yes. Rough and ready seasoned pros have them on toast, as often seen when Smith is owned by Journeymen strikers

[The Kalamazoo Kid]

You’ve mentioned it more than once as our one problem. I go to the games so I dont know what’s being said on the radio during them.

 

I've noticed that some of those that come on here and argue with anyone who is unhappy with performances/tactics/team selections don't actually attend games themselves. (that's not a dig at all btw - merely an observation that many are far flung fans)

 

Obviously those that (i)follow games from afar literally don't get the bigger picture, and some end up watching through rose-tinted laptop screens!

[Paul6754]

Lot in here slag of our manager..by stating that it’s the team he put together, he picked, he did not inherit them

 

therefore when a team is not good enough it’s totally his fault .. and maybe it is

 

but then I wonder what is the success rate on a manger bringing in new players

 

it’s certainly not 1:1 more likely 1:2 or even 1:3

 

and that’s why it takes time you bring in 3 players and maybe 1 works out so you bring in 12 and out of that 4-6 might work out

 

you never build an instant success squad,you let some go you bring some in

 

you keep rotating until you have the squad you want

 

it’s not done in one close season

 

look at any club, it takes time, but it is about how long to give him, I know??

 

Valiant I agree, I understand the frustration of Vale fans with Aspin and have some too but not to the point of sack him.

 

Bruno and Smurf ripped the playing fabric out of PVFC in Summer 2016 and without mega amounts of money it was always gonna take at least 3 summer transfer windows to rebuild the squad.

 

We've got better players now than last season and hopefully we can strengthen this Jan transfer window and win more games than the 2 games we won from Jan - end of season 2017 and end up mid table...ish if not higher.

[Paul6754]

There’s the problem with our creative players though. Set up a team defensively like in the majority of recent games, leaving only 4 mobile players in the starting 11 (Manny, Monty, Conlon, Hannant) and everything rests on their shoulders to do something, then we’re knackered when they play poorly. It’s not about getting the ball and running at people to beat them. It’s also about team movement and options, players in the right position who know there jobs and can support attacks. With everything resting on those 4 players it severely limits us. We go out looking like a Sunday side with no pattern of play, like it’s a free for all. Chuck as many “creative” players as you want on the pitch, as we currently stand we won’t do anything because we don’t play around or through those players with any kind of pattern.

 

I'd also say Clarke, Vassell and Whitfield are mobile from Saturdays team (Conlon didn't play), it's not just about running around and pace it's about reading the game and finding space and good positions from where to deliver the ball. We lack consistent quality to deliver the ball when in good positions. For examle, Hannnant can deliver quality ball but the last few games he hasn't done it enough and the same applies to the others.

 

 

I go to the games so I dont know what’s being said on the radio during them. Our problems run a lot deeper than just players not delivering quality balls all the time. Don’t you agree?

 

Yes, Vale need another goal scorer to take the pressure of ZPopey and I as well as everyone else would prefer to see round pegs in round holes but having said that Aspin and his coaching staff see these players day in day out.

 

I know what goes on day to day with training yes.

 

So you are present in the dressing room before the games, on the training pitch, present at meetings to discuss tactics, constantly in communication with Aspin and his coaches? Come on PV, you probably watch the players training but that's a long was from being on the inside.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that how we set up and play is right for the players we have and gets the best out of them? If all those players are on the pitch you also need movement, patterns of play and support Around them. Honestly we do not drill the players in terms of their specific roles within our set up. We have no preferred way of setting up and the players dont know how we will set up til Thursday before a game, sometimes Friday. That shows because we are constantly changing personnel and tweaking our formation. Surely the basis of a strong side is a solid foundation in how we will set up and play within that formation? We’re 5 months in to the season and we’re still tinkering around. Players roles within that should be second nature with tailored training around how we play and set up. That doesn’t happen.

 

Last few games Vassell has been poor and targeted by the opposition, I said on saturdays match thread that nothing was coming down Vale's left, the lad has lost his confidence. I would prefer to see Gibbo at RB and Clarke at LB. The manager has to tinker with the formation as players get injured/lose form.

 

Also by the end of the game Monty was left back, Whitfield left wing, Hannant centre midfield. Players out of position again.Worrall was on having not played for months, (hopefully he gets another chance instead of being cast aside). Quigley is ineffective. The changes killed us. Even though I think Monty had a decent first half, is he really a right winger though? No because he can’t get down the line to deliver with his right. On the other side Vassell won’t go forward and Hannant had a bit of an off day too. Even Clark didn’t contribute much going forward either, so we’re effectively hamstrung again relying on 4 players to do something positive and get the ball in to Pope. It is plain as day that we have no plan of what we are going to do other than try to hit Pope. But if that’s the plan we need more bodies around him. We all know the Vale way of playing, can you say the same with this team?

 

Monty isn't a left back but has played there before, Whitfield and Hannant have both played in those positions, Quigley is and has generally been ineffective apart from one cross vs Morecambe. It isn't just 4 players we rely on for creativity/to produce a good ball but all players, just some will do it more than others.

 

 

I’d say lack of direction. Lack of consistency in team selections and formations. First half they targeted Vassell and it was working for them, getting behind him and causing problems. He looked totally lost. 2 goals (directly and indirectly) came from them using the space behind Clark again, one of which saw them switch play with that great diagonal over Montys head for the third.

 

Yes they did and Aspo took him off at HT. The fluky 2nd goal was the killer, the 3rd and 4th Vale got caught on the counter, if the players weren't pushing up the pitch to get an equaliser then fans would have been moaning even more. getting caught on the counter happens to all teams at all levels, its a common way to play, particularly away from home.

 

We played to Whitfields strengths in that first half. Give him a free role and let him do what he wants. Then he got switched to left wing and it totally killed his game off.

 

whitfield faded after Oldham scored their 2nd, the defended deeper and there wasn't the space for him to run into as in the 1st half.

 

I want to see exciting players going down the wing. I want to see full backs overlapping at the right times. I want to see a midfield runner breaking the lines to go past our own forwards to get on the end of something. If we play to Pope i want to see him laying it backwards and sideways to players providing options. Triangles of play in tight areas. I just want to see us play like it looks like we know what we’re doing, like we have a plan that players buy into, because at the moment I don’t think they do.

 

Yep don't we all but you should be watching your football at the Nou Camp etc. Popey does do all those things, sometimes he has an off day, sometimes the a ref penalizes him far more that he does the defenders, it's not all simple and key tapping.

[bookworm]

Aspins negative outlook isn't going to change neither is he suddenly going to get tactical nous all of a sudden, his ability to set a team up to subdue the other teams strengths and exploit their weaknesses is sadly lacking so he's best gone.i thought smut and aspro were supposed to have a meeting today heard nowt so it's carry on to the bitter end is it.

[Paul6754]

I've noticed that some of those that come on here and argue with anyone who is unhappy with performances/tactics/team selections don't actually attend games themselves. (that's not a dig at all btw - merely an observation that many are far flung fans)

 

Please explain how someone who doesn't attend the games but watches virtually every game on iFollow doesn't know the team selections as they're given out before every game, can't judge the performance or tactics employed on the pitch when at most games the camera gives a comparable if not better and a bird's eye view of the games, an opinion based on having stood/sat in every stand at Vale Park. Sometimes at the smaller grounds the view is not so bird's Eye. Have you watched sufficient games on iFollow to compare?

 

Obviously those that (i)follow games from afar literally don't get the bigger picture, and some end up watching through rose-tinted laptop screens!

 

So please explain how I don't get the bigger picture, I just see a different bigger picture and I've explained my reasoning so please explain yours. There ain't any obvious about it, far from it.

[Mario]

Valiant I agree, I understand the frustration of Vale fans with Aspin and have some too but not to the point of sack him.

 

Bruno and Smurf ripped the playing fabric out of PVFC in Summer 2016 and without mega amounts of money it was always gonna take at least 3 summer transfer windows to rebuild the squad.

 

We've got better players now than last season and hopefully we can strengthen this Jan transfer window and win more games than the 2 games we won from Jan - end of season 2017 and end up mid table...ish if not higher.

 

So you are confident that Aspin can change his tactics from hoof ball to an isolated Pope, to a more fluid attacking outlook with over lapping full backs and better 2nd phases of play........Good luck with that.

[ELDERBEZZA]

Happy New Year to you all! !

[Paul6754]

So you are confident that Aspin can change his tactics from hoof ball to an isolated Pope, to a more fluid attacking outlook with over lapping full backs and better 2nd phases of play........Good luck with that.

 

Those are your words Mario, not mine.