Match Thread - Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[CAVALIER]

You don't drop Pope, you play to his strengths and get a good singer or two, widen the pitch and go for it Aspo has stopped all that hasn't he

[CAVALIER]

Even a winger!

[Valiant!]

Well I'd say evaluating if a player is mentally strong enough or will fit in well enough to a squad is a part of the recruitment process. It's a fair arguement to say a manager needs time to build his own squad, but unfortunately Aspin's signings don't seem to be any better than the ones he inherited.

 

I said elsewhere that Luton Town manager Nathan Jones said that any kind of behaviour problems was a red line for him and he would never sign such a player. His team have gone from struggling in League Two to flying high in League One within two years. He would never have signed Ricky Miller.

 

Agree to a point, but needing a striker close season,and knowing Miller’s past record all be it non league level, it was a punt believing that the penny cud have dropped with miller, or he could get a tune out of him, but quite obviously hasn’t worked? So yes, a boss failure per say!!!

[PV1973]

You don't drop Pope, you play to his strengths and get a good singer or two, widen the pitch and go for it Aspo has stopped all that hasn't he

You also play proper full backs who will also go forward. Time and time again you see a player run off the wing inside and no one has gone into the space freed up down the wing, why, because you look 40 yards back and see a converted centre half playing full back and not willing to push forward or not even knowing when to go or when to stay.

[Wrex]

Agree to a point, but needing a striker close season,and knowing Miller’s past record all be it non league level, it was a punt believing that the penny cud have dropped with miller, or he could get a tune out of him, but quite obviously hasn’t worked? So yes, a boss failure per say!!!

 

Miller did seem worth a gamble to me. An unbelievable record in the division below, even if everything was set up for him to succeed there. It did make sense to have Pope as the target man and Miller to feed off him. I think the problem was Pope wasn't being fed in the first place, so neither he or Miller had anything to work with.

[mbycars]

Well you're certainly wrong about Grimsby--they're not below us and are currently in the middle of a really good run--have also won away at Exeter today to prove my point--just saying not disagreeing with your disappointment over the Xmas period!

 

They were below us before we played them on boxing day.

[Valiant!]

Miller did seem worth a gamble to me. An unbelievable record in the division below, even if everything was set up for him to succeed there. It did make sense to have Pope as the target man and Miller to feed off him. I think the problem was Pope wasn't being fed in the first place, so neither he or Miller had anything to work with.

 

Agree wrex!

[Valiant9]

Last season was dreadful, but one of the things I thought was promising on reflection was the relationship formed on the flanks between full backs and wingers. Worrall and Gibbons in particular seemed to have a great understanding, then when Aspin converted Monty to left back, him and Hannant did well also. Along with Popes goals, I'd have said our 2nd most influential player was David Worrall. Was/is there a better crosser of the ball at the club? Aspin hasn't a clue what to do now, as has been stated, he seems a dead man walking. I was all for giving him until the summer as he has then had 2 summer windows to release/keep/sign who he wants, but the utter dross being served up now, this long into his reign, makes me think he's actually out of his depth, which is a shame, as I loved the player. How can a guy who played with two flying wingers in our glory days NOT even try to recreate it over a period of more than a few games, especially when he (rightly) persists with Pope up front. Also, Kay cannot play as one of a two in CM, the blokes 36. I could understand the thinking on sticking him in front of a back 3, allowing the full backs (as in actual full backs) pushing on, but not as a 2 in CM, hes not got the legs. No-one but the people inside the club know what goes on on a day to day basis, I'm training, personal lives etc, but jesus wept, we have the personnel to play in their correct positions, so give them a run of games to get their match fitness up, relationships going again.

 

4-4-2

 

1. Brown

2. Gibbons (RB)

3. Montano/Clark (LB)

4. Legge (CB)

5. Rawlinson/Smith (CB)

6. Oyeleke (CM)

7. Worrall (RW)

8. Conlon/Hannant (CM)

9. Pope

10. New striker signed in Jan

11. Whitfield/Hannant (LW)

 

Obviously injuries and suspensions happen, but as a 1st eleven, no-one can tell me that wouldn't be a top half team, with the correct manager in charge, tactics applied and the new striker has slightly more success than Miller!

[JRC]

Miller did seem worth a gamble to me. An unbelievable record in the division below, even if everything was set up for him to succeed there. It did make sense to have Pope as the target man and Miller to feed off him. I think the problem was Pope wasn't being fed in the first place, so neither he or Miller had anything to work with.

 

I felt the same, although I now think I was wrong. Historically Pope has been better up top with a player who runs the channels well. His record playing with an out and out goal scorer alongside him hasn't been that great at any of his clubs.

[Paul6754]

For real? Can’t be held accountable? If it was a one or 2 game occurance the.n I’d agree but it’s been all season! So what has he done about it? How has he addressed the situation?

 

When the players are on the pitch and in good positions and fail to deliver a quality ball than at that moment in time he can't be accountable. What can he do about it?, pick someone else but there aren't many creative options available at the club and the transfer window virtually prohibits him doing anything until the January transfer window

[Valiant9]

Also, I'd love to know Aspins reasons for why he continuously picks a right footed CB in Vassell at left back? This is in no way a criticism of Theo, who I actually believe has the potential, certainly at this level and maybe the league above, to be a better CB than Smith. Other than his height, what does Aspin see? Good left foot? Not particularly. Offering support to the winger? No. One option is the left footed Montano who did well there back end of last season, or heaven forbid, putting an actual full back there in Clark, and another one in at RB to replace Clark, namely James Gibbons, which obviously wont happen. You read Aspin saying stuff like, 'I go off what I see in training', well I'm sorry Neil, but I'd rather you act on what's happening in the 1sr team too as we are heading to the abyss

[geosname]

I would suggest the failures on the pitch are joint failures, all parties have to take their own responsibilities for their own actions.

The owner, the management staff and the players are all responsible.

Pope is paid to score goals... he isn't.

Defenders are not defending.

Midfield isn't supplying.

Etc etc etc.

Yes aspin is responsible for recruitment, team selection and tactics and he should take that responsibility but he isn't responsible for the cack the players produce... if they can't do the job get rid of them.... if they constantly underperfom get rid... if they cant/won't perform or are disruptive get rid.... send them on loan.... free transfered... whatever.

They only fly in the ointment is the owner...... who takes no responsibility for anything but has the responsibility for everything.

A spin is the easy target but all the players failures will still be there when he has gone.... players will still miss the target, fail to find a white shirt with a pass and all the other things they fail to do on the pitch.

It's rotten from top to bottom.

[CambridgeDon]

Some good points being made about the first half, Whitfield and Monty were having a lot of joy. Whitfield especially in behind had the beating of their defence, whilst Monty definitely had the legs on their left back. So I bet their left back couldn’t believe his luck when we go and move Monty to be our left back and bring on Worrall who hasn’t played for weeks in his position. It was the right thing to do in substituting Vassell, because he was awful yet again and kept getting caught out, but it was madness to break up what was working for us in the first half. It just shows how bad our management are, because Monty like Vassell is not a left back and I’ll go so far as to say that his performances in defence earlier this season (or as a left wing back) scream “I don’t want to play in this position”.

 

Someone said earlier that the only change he needed to make was to take off Vassell and bring on Gibbons, with Clark moving to left back. You have to ask why he didn't do it - something really strange must have gone on with Gibbons for Aspin to prefer upsetting the balance of the whole team rather than go for a much simpler solution. I guess we'll never know but if we can see it on matchday, you can bet the players see it every day. Perhaps that's why they look so demotivated, just fed up with Aspo's approach. As much as I want Aspo to succeed (what a dream it was to think that he might eventually lead us to promotion), if he's lost the players, he's done. Just a matter of time.

[Valiant!]

I would suggest the failures on the pitch are joint failures, all parties have to take their own responsibilities for their own actions.

The owner, the management staff and the players are all responsible.

Pope is paid to score goals... he isn't.

Defenders are not defending.

Midfield isn't supplying.

Etc etc etc.

Yes aspin is responsible for recruitment, team selection and tactics and he should take that responsibility but he isn't responsible for the cack the players produce... if they can't do the job get rid of them.... if they constantly underperfom get rid... if they cant/won't perform or are disruptive get rid.... send them on loan.... free transfered... whatever.

They only fly in the ointment is the owner...... who takes no responsibility for anything but has the responsibility for everything.

A spin is the easy target but all the players failures will still be there when he has gone.... players will still miss the target, fail to find a white shirt with a pass and all the other things they fail to do on the pitch.

It's rotten from top to bottom.

 

Last sentence bang on, however not easy to get people out even on loan,took ages to get the ones we didn’t want out, and one got sent back early,not many gonna take them

from us I’m afraid!!

[PV1973]

Also, I'd love to know Aspins reasons for why he continuously picks a right footed CB in Vassell at left back? This is in no way a criticism of Theo, who I actually believe has the potential, certainly at this level and maybe the league above, to be a better CB than Smith. Other than his height, what does Aspin see? Good left foot? Not particularly. Offering support to the winger? No. One option is the left footed Montano who did well there back end of last season, or heaven forbid, putting an actual full back there in Clark, and another one in at RB to replace Clark, namely James Gibbons, which obviously wont happen. You read Aspin saying stuff like, 'I go off what I see in training', well I'm sorry Neil, but I'd rather you act on what's happening in the 1sr team too as we are heading to the abyss

Has Aspin ever said that about training? Believe it or not in the main he isn’t involved in training as Nogan takes it, Aspin usually only comes down on a Thursday to take the starting 11 away.

 

Last season was dreadful, but one of the things I thought was promising on reflection was the relationship formed on the flanks between full backs and wingers. Worrall and Gibbons in particular seemed to have a great understanding, then when Aspin converted Monty to left back, him and Hannant did well also. Along with Popes goals, I'd have said our 2nd most influential player was David Worrall. Was/is there a better crosser of the ball at the club? Aspin hasn't a clue what to do now, as has been stated, he seems a dead man walking. I was all for giving him until the summer as he has then had 2 summer windows to release/keep/sign who he wants, but the utter dross being served up now, this long into his reign, makes me think he's actually out of his depth, which is a shame, as I loved the player. How can a guy who played with two flying wingers in our glory days NOT even try to recreate it over a period of more than a few games, especially when he (rightly) persists with Pope up front. Also, Kay cannot play as one of a two in CM, the blokes 36. I could understand the thinking on sticking him in front of a back 3, allowing the full backs (as in actual full backs) pushing on, but not as a 2 in CM, hes not got the legs. No-one but the people inside the club know what goes on on a day to day basis, I'm training, personal lives etc, but jesus wept, we have the personnel to play in their correct positions, so give them a run of games to get their match fitness up, relationships going again.

 

4-4-2

 

1. Brown

2. Gibbons (RB)

3. Montano/Clark (LB)

4. Legge (CB)

5. Rawlinson/Smith (CB)

6. Oyeleke (CM)

7. Worrall (RW)

8. Conlon/Hannant (CM)

9. Pope

10. New striker signed in Jan

11. Whitfield/Hannant (LW)

 

Obviously injuries and suspensions happen, but as a 1st eleven, no-one can tell me that wouldn't be a top half team, with the correct manager in charge, tactics applied and the new striker has slightly more success than Miller!

Great points and if you go back to last season out bad run after Christmas coincided with him pressing the panic button every game and changing things around and we never settled as a side, formed relationships or got a run going. He’s panicked earlier this season with different formations, personnel and positional changes.