Match Thread - Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[Frank Mustard]

I'll get my tin hat ready but really what has Conlon done ?

True he is an upgrade on Pugh or Tonge ( who wouldn't be ) , but the more I see of him he is lightweight and I can see why Stevenage released him.

 

For me he is a squad player at best.

Like I say I'll get my tin hat

 

No tin hat needed, he’s just like the rest of the midfield 5ft garbage.

[Erniemossrules]

I'll get my tin hat ready but really what has Conlon done ?

True he is an upgrade on Pugh or Tonge ( who wouldn't be ) , but the more I see of him he is lightweight and I can see why Stevenage released him.

 

For me he is a squad player at best.

Like I say I'll get my tin hat

 

At least he can put two passes together which is what we need at the moment.He never wastes a pass and can get stuck in.

He is comfortable on the ball.

A few weeks ago him and Manny were playing well together but Aspin dropped him and he lost his confidence.

A couple of weeks ago people on here for both players to be offered longer contracts now the same people are saying he is a squad player.

[Seamus O'Wye]

"It just shows how bad our management are, because Monty like Vassell is not a left back and I’ll go so far as to say that his performances in defence earlier this season (or as a left wing back) scream “I don’t want to play in this position”." (PV1973)

 

Correct. The fact that Aspin still thinks Montano is a full back/wing back speaks volumes. The ability to defend is a pre-requisite for that position...and Montano hasn't got it.

[PV1973]

Tell me one thing. If Monty had the beating of their left back, what did he do after?

He has no right foot. Having no right foot means he cannot either

1.. play full back because you have to use your right foot to defend and tackle.

He failed to do this for one of their goals yesterday

2.. play right wing because when the opposigion know you they stop you going inside and this results in you being no threat at all

Monty is a left wing for a good 5 games a year and thats it.

If only we could pick those games.

All true. His best attribute from playing off the right wing is getting across the full back at the back post which is where I think 3 of his recent goals came from. I mentioned earlier we’ve been lucky to have seen him play well and look interested in games maybe not even reaching double figures since he’s been at the club. But I think v Oldham his and Whitfield’s pace was causing problems and unsettling the defence, without necessarily leading to much creativity.

[TJHValiant]

I'll get my tin hat ready but really what has Conlon done ?

True he is an upgrade on Pugh or Tonge ( who wouldn't be ) , but the more I see of him he is lightweight and I can see why Stevenage released him.

 

For me he is a squad player at best.

Like I say I'll get my tin hat

 

I think he sums up the argument that Aspin has not been backed properly and Smurf is the real reason we are struggling.

 

Conlon was never a first choice player at Stevenage. He got on the subs bench if he was lucky towards the end of his time there.

 

However he is the best option in our first team?

 

Every summer we sign these poor players and think...well he will be good for the bench....only to find such players are as good as it gets and they end up as major starters...see also Rawlinson.

[Upfromnowhere]

What about young Hardcastle, another one on the naughty step perhaps?

Even though he didn't shine, in my eyes did absolutely nothing wrong when he did cross the line

[The Kalamazoo Kid]

I'll get my tin hat ready but really what has Conlon done ?

True he is an upgrade on Pugh or Tonge ( who wouldn't be ) , but the more I see of him he is lightweight and I can see why Stevenage released him.

 

For me he is a squad player at best.

Like I say I'll get my tin hat

 

Agree. He is weak, wants too much time on the ball (he constantly stands with his foot on the ball, or rolls it around under his foot, rather than using it quickly) & has little to no impact/influence on games.

 

Had a couple of OK games early on but has really regressed & it was no surprise to see him benched in the last game.

 

Similarly, Oyeleke has really dropped his level in recent weeks - hopefully he's not disheartened & looking to move on already (with only 5 months left on his contract).

[Wrex]

Similarly, Oyeleke has really dropped his level in recent weeks - hopefully he's not disheartened & looking to move on already (with only 5 months left on his contract).

 

He'll struggle to get a new club if he carries on in this form for much longer

[PV1973]

If you don't know the players who are in the team and who's primary/main job it is to provide the flair, quality and to create then don't enter into discussion on a football Message Board, Lge 2 PVFC isn't "Total Football".

What a strange paragraph. There’s the problem with our creative players though. Set up a team defensively like in the majority of recent games, leaving only 4 mobile players in the starting 11 (Manny, Monty, Conlon, Hannant) and everything rests on their shoulders to do something, then we’re knackered when they play poorly. It’s not about getting the ball and running at people to beat them. It’s also about team movement and options, players in the right position who know there jobs and can support attacks. With everything resting on those 4 players it severely limits us. We go out looking like a Sunday side with no pattern of play, like it’s a free for all. Chuck as many “creative” players as you want on the pitch, as we currently stand we won’t do anything because we don’t play around or through those players with any kind of pattern.

 

Who said "They get into good positions constantly and consistently", those are your words. My words are when they do get into good positions the flair players often fail to deliver a quality ball, I've been saying this for a while, Sprowy and Ray Williams said the same the last two games.

 

Frustratingly when Vale have good spells of play we don't score and let teams of the hook as the final ball is often not good enough or the shot goes wide (eg Quigley vs Grimsby etc). Goals change games, yesterday their 2nd was the real killer. So in terms of heads in sand, I suggest you take yours out and your neck as well.

You’ve mentioned it more than once as our one problem. I go to the games so I dont know what’s being said on the radio during them. Our problems run a lot deeper than just players not delivering quality balls all the time. Don’t you agree?

 

These are your opinions not facts. How do you know, are you in the dressing room before the games, on the training pitch, present at meetings to discuss tactics, constantly in communication with Aspin and his coaches?

I know what goes on day to day with training yes.

 

Well I could have sworn on Saturday that Hannant, Montano and Whitfield all started and were still on the pitch at the end of the game, Oyeleke tried hard to link Vale together and going forward. Vassell was out of position, one player out of 11, ffs.

Do you honestly believe that how we set up and play is right for the players we have and gets the best out of them? If all those players are on the pitch you also need movement, patterns of play and support Around them. Honestly we do not drill the players in terms of their specific roles within our set up. We have no preferred way of setting up and the players dont know how we will set up til Thursday before a game, sometimes Friday. That shows because we are constantly changing personnel and tweaking our formation. Surely the basis of a strong side is a solid foundation in how we will set up and play within that formation? We’re 5 months in to the season and we’re still tinkering around. Players roles within that should be second nature with tailored training around how we play and set up. That doesn’t happen.

 

Also by the end of the game Monty was left back, Whitfield left wing, Hannant centre midfield. Players out of position again.Worrall was on having not played for months, (hopefully he gets another chance instead of being cast aside). Quigley is ineffective. The changes killed us. Even though I think Monty had a decent first half, is he really a right winger though? No because he can’t get down the line to deliver with his right. On the other side Vassell won’t go forward and Hannant had a bit of an off day too. Even Clark didn’t contribute much going forward either, so we’re effectively hamstrung again relying on 4 players to do something positive and get the ball in to Pope. It is plain as day that we have no plan of what we are going to do other than try to hit Pope. But if that’s the plan we need more bodies around him. We all know the Vale way of playing, can you say the same with this team?

 

I agree on some of these points. We do look disjointed at times, particularly yesterday, is this lack of confidence? I wish Aspin would play full backs at full back, we got caught yesterday on two counts at left full back. Vale do tend to lose shape when we go a goal down especially in the 2nd half and/or are pushing forward for a goal but that happens to all teams at all levels, against Grimsby and Oldham we got caught on the counter. It's why many teams play on the counter particularly away from home.

I’d say lack of direction. Lack of consistency in team selections and formations. First half they targeted Vassell and it was working for them, getting behind him and causing problems. He looked totally lost. 2 goals (directly and indirectly) came from them using the space behind Clark again, one of which saw them switch play with that great diagonal over Montys head for the third.

 

 

How do you know, I'd suggest the opposite and the evidence is that we tend to play through Popey etc and yesterday at the start it was clear that the plan was to get Whitfield in particular in behind Oldham and it almost worked.

Yes of course lumping it to Pope is our only tactic. When it doesn’t work what do we do? Teams have been nullifying Pope recently and as a result we have no plan B. But even with plan A we don’t get bodies up around him. How often do we concede position either through lumping it to Pope or by not having enough movement for us to keep the ball. We played to Whitfields strengths in that first half. Give him a free role and let him do what he wants. Then he got switched to left wing and it totally killed his game off.

 

I want to see exciting players going down the wing. I want to see full backs overlapping at the right times. I want to see a midfield runner breaking the lines to go past our own forwards to get on the end of something. If we play to Pope i want to see him laying it backwards and sideways to players providing options. Triangles of play in tight areas. I just want to see us play like it looks like we know what we’re doing, like we have a plan that players buy into, because at the moment I don’t think they do.

[Frank Mustard]

Similarly, Oyeleke has really dropped his level in recent weeks - hopefully he's not disheartened & looking to move on already (with only 5 months left on his contract).

 

On current form he’ll be lucky if Stafford Rangers were interested in him.

[darren1810]

What shocked me on Saturday was how tiny a lot of our players are.

Both Clark and Whitfield look about 12 , we do lack a presence Pope and Legge excluded.

Even Hannant is tiny close up

[Frank Mustard]

Maybe we could replace Aspin with Snow White. She might be able to get that extra bit out of the seven dwarves which are currently masquerading as footballers making up half of our team.

[For Us All]

Agree. He is weak, wants too much time on the ball (he constantly stands with his foot on the ball, or rolls it around under his foot, rather than using it quickly) & has little to no impact/influence on games.

 

Had a couple of OK games early on but has really regressed & it was no surprise to see him benched in the last game.

 

Similarly, Oyeleke has really dropped his level in recent weeks - hopefully he's not disheartened & looking to move on already (with only 5 months left on his contract).

 

Midfield has been a massive problem for us over the last few seasons,no characters or leaders that want to dominate a game,a lack of goalscorers and worryingly a real lack of desire to compete with their opposite numbers in midfield.

Games are won and lost in midfield.

Sort it out please Neil.

[For Us All]

What shocked me on Saturday was how tiny a lot of our players are.

Both Clark and Whitfield look about 12 , we do lack a presence Pope and Legge excluded.

Even Hannant is tiny close up

 

Does it matter,Mo Salah and Ngolo Kante are tiny?

[bookworm]

I walked away last season and don’t regret it one bit. Being there frustrated, angry, cold and totally bored was not helping anyone’s cause, the team, the club and certainly not my own. Loyalty was bordering stupidity. It was hard at first, but now I sadly don’t miss it. When things change, I’ll be back, whether it’s league 2 or conference, my only criteria being that I enjoy myself, because under the current regime, enjoyment is not possible.

 

No apologies needed for the other comments.

same here, I will return when the bbc goes not before, a poor mans phillip green who if he had an employees pension fund to steal would do so,ugh,what a disgusting specimen of a man.