Brexit again...

[ginge]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-caller-james-obrien-fish-and-chips/ 

Painful listen... and people like Christine are allowed to vote.... 

[geosname]

39 minutes ago, ginge said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-caller-james-obrien-fish-and-chips/ 

Painful listen... and people like Christine are allowed to vote.... 

What are the "facts"?

[ginge]

8 hours ago, geosname said:

What are the "facts"?

That the EU didn't stop us from eating fish and chips in newspaper, and it was a British law under the 1990 Food Safety Act. 

And how she persevered with praising Tim for easily sourcing beer from other countries now we have left the EU was crazy considering we haven't left yet.

[geosname]

On 18/07/2019 at 18:59, Howjy04 said:

Meanwhile,Gold is on the up.

That's a bit of a saving grace at least...... from my perspective.

[Regal Beagle]

On 18/07/2019 at 16:39, TheSage said:

Just pointing out the economic stupidity of a No Deal Brexit - in case you missed it.  😉

It's ok to want to leave the EU but you must recognise that it is having and will have a serious impact on the economy and not pretend otherwise.

One of the more recent calculations by an Emeritus Professor of Economics at Oxford has calculated that we are all about £2000 worse off as a result of voting to leave and it might get worse still.

Sterling has weakened a lot. We have dropped down the international league tables for growth from near the top to near the bottom. Mark Carney reckoned we'd lost about 2.3% GDP annually since 2016. Business investment has flat-lined. Direct foreign investment has fallen. It's partly caused by uncertainty and inertia and a realisation that our politicians haven't got a clue. But the short term tends are negative and unmistakable.

If people were not being kept in the dark and realised already that Brexit to date has cost every household £2000 then I think an awful lot of people would change their minds and realise that they'd been sold a pup. There is no land of milk and honey if we leave without a deal. Only economic disaster. If that's a price you want to pay, then fine, but at least be honest enough to admit it and stop pretending that we'll all be awash with cash once we've left.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/02/how-economic-cost-brexit-being-hidden-leave-voters

Wake up, smell the coffee and join the growing group of people who have now changed their minds. 🇪🇺 😉 

Rubbish.

The OBR which again is quoted in your links suggest that upon a no deal brexit there will be a hit to the economy but this will be temporary. The economy will recover quickly and they forecast that we'd be 2% worse off in 2021 (though the economy is still growing it just wouldn't have grown as much in that time period if we'd remained).

That's less than 14 months of disruption by the way and our economy, despite a small recession early on, would actually have grown.

 

Furtheremore, it's not brexit that has caused the economic disruption for the last 2.5 years. It's the lack of brexit. It's the betreyal, it's the sabotage.

We need a strong leader, we need no deal.

[TheSage]

Sabotage? Betrayal? A strong leader? I'm sure I've heard language like that before. The thirties I think it was. 

I notice you are now moving the goal posts from formerly claiming that Brexit would be easy and painless to one in which you claim (falsely again) that there will be a hit but only for about 14 months.  How you draw that conclusion from the evidence above I don't know but god moves in mysterious ways.

What you say is complete fantasy and pie in the sky, like most statements by hard line, flat earth Brexiteers. 

You really do need to get our more, be a bit more open minded and accept that sometimes you are wrong and someone else has made a valid point.

This extreme stance of those hell bent on a ridiculously stupid and economic costly No Deal has become almost unbelievable in the past three years. Instead of sensibly debating and discussing how we move forward in this increasingly inter-dependent and global world we now have right wing lunatics running the asylum, requiring unquestioned devotion to a mythical Nirvana and a dogma that now ignores opposition, expels non-believers and won't accept being questioned. And as the months have ticked by and the hard right haven't yet got their own way then attacks on the press, civil service, BBC, Speaker and even the House of Commons itself have come to to the fore, including suggesting proroguing Parliament. Which brings us back in a neat circle, reminding me again of the thirties.

But if the lady like ginge quotes above are in any way representative of where we're heading then let's pray that the good lord comes to our aid.

[Fosse69]

The effects of Brexit will not be spread uniformly, there will be some big winners, most will see disruptions, but there will be losers in manufacturing.  Overall forecasts don't give the breakdown.

[Regal Beagle]

32 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Sabotage? Betrayal? A strong leader? I'm sure I've heard language like that before. The thirties I think it was. 

I notice you are now moving the goal posts from formerly claiming that Brexit would be easy and painless to one in which you claim (falsely again) that there will be a hit but only for about 14 months.  How you draw that conclusion from the evidence above I don't know but god moves in mysterious ways. 

What you say is complete fantasy and pie in the sky, like most statements by hard line, flat earth Brexiteers. 

You really do need to get our more, be a bit more open minded and accept that sometimes you are wrong and someone else has made a valid point.

This extreme stance of those hell bent on a ridiculously stupid and economic costly No Deal has become almost unbelievable in the past three years. Instead of sensibly debating and discussing how we move forward in this increasingly inter-dependent and global world we now have right wing lunatics running the asylum, requiring unquestioned devotion to a mythical Nirvana and a dogma that now ignores opposition, expels non-believers and won't accept being questioned. And as the months have ticked by and the hard right haven't yet got their own way then attacks on the press, civil service, BBC, Speaker and even the House of Commons itself have come to to the fore, including suggesting proroguing Parliament. Which brings us back in a neat circle, reminding me again of the thirties.

But if the lady like ginge quotes above are in any way representative of where we're heading then let's pray that the good lord comes to our aid.

Give it up with the 30s stuff TheSage, a pretty disgraceful start to your post.

I've not moved the goalposts. Ask Jacko, I have long said that there will be a short term economic hit due to the uncertainty. The long term benefits are clear in my opinion though and well worth it.

 

Hard line flat earth brexiteers?

I cannot believe you have dared accuse me of lacking sensible debate when you've tried to call me a nazi and used flat earthers as some sort of metaphor?!

Your post is absolutely atrocious, totally lacking in reality.

Let me spell it out for you as you've clearly misunderstood my last post....The source that the articles YOU are quoting is the OBR. The OBR also says that in a no deal situation the economy will not only be growing again by 2021 but will only be 2% smaller than if we remain, and that gap narrows year on year.

That means that they're predicting the economy will actually grow at a faster rate outside of the EU than inside although there will be a few years of catch up.

Far from the economic "disaster" that you are trying to claim. It simply isn't true. We didn't believe the lies in 2016, we don't believe the lies in 2019. Try something else.

[Jacko51]

52 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Sabotage? Betrayal? A strong leader? I'm sure I've heard language like that before. The thirties I think it was. 

I notice you are now moving the goal posts from formerly claiming that Brexit would be easy and painless to one in which you claim (falsely again) that there will be a hit but only for about 14 months.  How you draw that conclusion from the evidence above I don't know but god moves in mysterious ways.

What you say is complete fantasy and pie in the sky, like most statements by hard line, flat earth Brexiteers. 

You really do need to get our more, be a bit more open minded and accept that sometimes you are wrong and someone else has made a valid point.

This extreme stance of those hell bent on a ridiculously stupid and economic costly No Deal has become almost unbelievable in the past three years. Instead of sensibly debating and discussing how we move forward in this increasingly inter-dependent and global world we now have right wing lunatics running the asylum, requiring unquestioned devotion to a mythical Nirvana and a dogma that now ignores opposition, expels non-believers and won't accept being questioned. And as the months have ticked by and the hard right haven't yet got their own way then attacks on the press, civil service, BBC, Speaker and even the House of Commons itself have come to to the fore, including suggesting proroguing Parliament. Which brings us back in a neat circle, reminding me again of the thirties.

But if the lady like ginge quotes above are in any way representative of where we're heading then let's pray that the good lord comes to our aid.

A friend of mine wrote this on another forum which I think sums it all up for me:

" I am a Christian and often get a bit of grief for what people maintain is a belief based on no evidence at all. I do understand that point of view. I regard many Brexiters' view that things will be economically ok in the future in that spirit. It's a fond hope based on no actual evidence whatever. In fact, when challenged, they cannot tell you on what basis they make that assertion, they just BELIEVE.
The difference is that if I'M wrong in my belief then when I'm dead, I'm dead. The only person affected is me. If THEY'RE wrong, then we're all screwed. "

[geosname]

30 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

A friend of mine wrote this on another forum which I think sums it all up for me:

" I am a Christian and often get a bit of grief for what people maintain is a belief based on no evidence at all. I do understand that point of view. I regard many Brexiters' view that things will be economically ok in the future in that spirit. It's a fond hope based on no actual evidence whatever. In fact, when challenged, they cannot tell you on what basis they make that assertion, they just BELIEVE.
The difference is that if I'M wrong in my belief then when I'm dead, I'm dead. The only person affected is me. If THEY'RE wrong, then we're all screwed. "

Tell your friend they are wrong....

Unless all his/her friends die first their death will affect someone

[Jacko51]

34 minutes ago, geosname said:

Tell your friend they are wrong....

Unless all his/her friends die first their death will affect someone

Wrong.  His belief is in an afterlife.  If he is wrong he will not have an afterlife.  That is his point. 

[geosname]

26 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Wrong.  His belief is in an afterlife.  If he is wrong he will not have an afterlife.  That is his point. 

He said his death would not affect someone/anyone...... whether there is an afterlife or not..... and I hope there isn't...... or that's how it reads

[mr.hobblesworth]

You like an argument, don't you?! 😉

[Jacko51]

6 hours ago, geosname said:

He said his death would not affect someone/anyone...... whether there is an afterlife or not..... and I hope there isn't...... or that's how it reads

Sorry mate, you've missed the point.  He is talking about his belief being based on no evidence - just like those whose belief about the economic benefits of Brexit being based on no evidence. 

[geosname]

2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Sorry mate, you've missed the point.  He is talking about his belief being based on no evidence - just like those whose belief about the economic benefits of Brexit being based on no evidence. 

Aren't all future events based on belief?