Brexit again...

[Fosse69]

To sum them up geo,it's all about self-interest and not national interest.

We could do with a new UK Party consisting of a mixture of MP's that represent the centre ground and think more about their country and not themselves.

Where is the centre ground? A mixed economy like the 60/70s

[TheSage]

Blimey. I've just thanked two of my protagonists on this thread!

 

However all this ends I think we do need a serious realignment of politics and a fresh look at the electoral process.

It won't happen because the main parties are only really bothered about trying to win power.

 

The referendum was a bigg-ish turn out, better than some recent election figures that have been down in the 60% range. But how bad is that? 30-40% don't vote - presumably because they are sick of the system and don't believe it serves them well. I can fully appreciate how some Leavers feel.

 

We surely have to cobble together some kind of compromise - a Soft Brexit - and consider another vote perhaps a bit further down the line, like Wilson did.

 

But the other key point I keep banging on about is the rise of extremism, on the left and on the right.

We know about Labour and how they've gone left but the Tories are slowly going hard right and Grieve has been challenged by a phalanx of recently paid up constituency members who were formerly in UKIP and taking their lead from Batten and Robinson. Not nice.

 

We all need to wake up and be aware of these dangers as we're becoming polarised and going left and right at some pace.

 

There has to be a place for tolerance, for a moderate centre party. History has proven that most voters since the War want something like that and not a party of extremes.

[geosname]

Blimey. I've just thanked two of my protagonists on this thread!

 

However all this ends I think we do need a serious realignment of politics and a fresh look at the electoral process.

It won't happen because the main parties are only really bothered about trying to win power.

 

The referendum was a bigg-ish turn out, better than some recent election figures that have been down in the 60% range. But how bad is that? 30-40% don't vote - presumably because they are sick of the system and don't believe it serves them well. I can fully appreciate how some Leavers feel.

 

We surely have to cobble together some kind of compromise - a Soft Brexit - and consider another vote perhaps a bit further down the line, like Wilson did.

 

But the other key point I keep banging on about is the rise of extremism, on the left and on the right.

We know about Labour and how they've gone left but the Tories are slowly going hard right and Grieve has been challenged by a phalanx of recently paid up constituency members who were formerly in UKIP and taking their lead from Batten and Robinson. Not nice.

 

We all need to wake up and be aware of these dangers as we're becoming polarised and going left and right at some pace.

 

There has to be a place for tolerance, for a moderate centre party. History has proven that most voters since the War want something like that and not a party of extremes.

 

Bloody he'll I didn't know there was a thank you button any more...

 

I agree that extremism is a serious issue, personally as previously stated I would prefer to see it out in the open, not cloistered away because of freedom of speech problems.

 

Centre ground... I wish mate... can't see it I'm afraid, I wish I could..... a little honesty and integrity from the politicos wouldn't go amiss either.... it's only the centre ground that actually works for the majority.... total capitalist control and total socialist control always turns to disaster eventually.... and it's the none politicos who get the whipping and suffer.

 

I think we have been swallowed by the party system for so long we can't imagine anything past it, it's so much of a natural state that people think you have to be one or the other that anything else is dismissed out of hand.... on the fringe.... a nut job.

 

I think that the party system has control, it can't afford anything else or it would be seen as the useless pile it is.

 

As said previously a good but simple first step would be a "none of the above" on every ballot paper... even if it only attracted the disengaged and disenfranchised would be a start, it could also attract the protest voters of either side who won't cast there vote in that direction....

 

We can but dream mate.

[Jacko51]

It has always been claimed that alternatives to the FPTP system we have would produce unstable coalitions rather than a single party stable government. The last decade has argued strongly against this. We have gone from a Con/Lib coalition to a Tories having confidence and supply agreement with the most right wing group of bigots in Parliament and no stable single party government at all.

 

A few years ago I was on holiday in Italy and we did a tour of Pompeii. The tour guide, a lovely Italian lady, said she wished that Italy had the sort stable government we had in the UK. I wonder what she thinks now!

[philpvfc]

Our Government is not very good but the Italian Government makes them look whiter than white.

[RailwayRowdy]

Bloody he'll I didn't know there was a thank you button any more...

 

I agree that extremism is a serious issue, personally as previously stated I would prefer to see it out in the open, not cloistered away because of freedom of speech problems.

 

Centre ground... I wish mate... can't see it I'm afraid, I wish I could..... a little honesty and integrity from the politicos wouldn't go amiss either.... it's only the centre ground that actually works for the majority.... total capitalist control and total socialist control always turns to disaster eventually.... and it's the none politicos who get the whipping and suffer.

 

I think we have been swallowed by the party system for so long we can't imagine anything past it, it's so much of a natural state that people think you have to be one or the other that anything else is dismissed out of hand.... on the fringe.... a nut job.

 

I think that the party system has control, it can't afford anything else or it would be seen as the useless pile it is.

 

As said previously a good but simple first step would be a "none of the above" on every ballot paper... even if it only attracted the disengaged and disenfranchised would be a start, it could also attract the protest voters of either side who won't cast there vote in that direction....

 

We can but dream mate.

 

For years, maybe decades, I have advocated the “none of the above” option on the ballot sheet, only to be met with the “that’s not possible” line.

 

But would a “None Of The Above” party name be allowable ?

 

Currently the disenchanted usually stand as an “Independant candidate” but perhaps a “None Of The Above” party may carry more gravitas.

 

One thing is for sure, this fiasco MUST end the current “two party” politics which we currently have to endure.

 

Unfortunately there are too many pigs with their snout in the trough to allow this to happen.

 

[Paul6754]

If the Brexit vote would have been held amongst MP's in June 2016 instead of an ill-informed public I doubt the country would be in the same mess as it is now.

 

In the 80/90's the SDP, the party party formed by Shirley Williams, John Smith, Bill Rogers and The Boy David seemed to offer hope as a center party, an alternative to Thatcher's right and the Labor left but it all seemed to fizzle out.

[Fosse69]

If the Brexit vote would have been held amongst MP's in June 2016 instead of an ill-informed public I doubt the country would be in the same mess as it is now.

 

In the 80/90's the SDP, the party party formed by Shirley Williams, John Smith, Bill Rogers and The Boy David seemed to offer hope as a center party, an alternative to Thatcher's right and the Labor left but it all seemed to fizzle out.

3rd parties always do, it is the system, only the Labour Party have managed it but it took a World War to make an impact.

[Regal Beagle]

If the Brexit vote would have been held amongst MP's in June 2016 instead of an ill-informed public I doubt the country would be in the same mess as it is now.

 

In the 80/90's the SDP, the party party formed by Shirley Williams, John Smith, Bill Rogers and The Boy David seemed to offer hope as a center party, an alternative to Thatcher's right and the Labor left but it all seemed to fizzle out.

 

Yes but the amazingly informed MPs agreed that the question should go to the people.

 

Surely the fact that brexit won is proof in itself that it should have gone to the people?

 

I mean that is a fact, that more people voted for brexit than for remaining, you do accept that?

[JohnJames]

Vote Leave ( led by Gove and Johnson) have admitted in court that they cheated. There also questions as to where Aaron Banks got his 8m from for his funding of UKIP.

[Fosse69]

Yes but the amazingly informed MPs agreed that the question should go to the people.

 

Surely the fact that brexit won is proof in itself that it should have gone to the people?

 

I mean that is a fact, that more people voted for brexit than for remaining, you do accept that?

But why isn't Moggs plan being followed? Where is the 2nd Referendum to confirm the basic idea has been carried out?

[Regal Beagle]

But why isn't Moggs plan being followed? Where is the 2nd Referendum to confirm the basic idea has been carried out?

 

MP's have voted against doing it.

 

I would imagine because they know the answer will force them to leave completely whereas they want to actually try and retain control so that they can keep us in as much as possible.

[Fosse69]

MP's have voted against doing it.

 

I would imagine because they know the answer will force them to leave completely whereas they want to actually try and retain control so that they can keep us in as much as possible.

Did Mogg vote against his own plan? Not to be trusted. Could have another chance this week.

[TheSage]

Somehow something needs to be cobbled together this week regardless of what your ideal scenario is.

If we are leaving we need a sensible deal.

[Paul6754]

Yes but the amazingly informed MPs agreed that the question should go to the people.

 

Surely the fact that brexit won is proof in itself that it should have gone to the people?

 

I mean that is a fact, that more people voted for brexit than for remaining, you do accept that?

 

When people are fed miss-information they make the wrong choice, this describes the EU referendum in June 2016 in a nutshell.