Brexit again...

[Jacko51]

Jimbo, The UK's net contribution of 8.6 billion GBP must be weighed against the financial benefits of it's access to the single market and beyond. It just isn't as simple as the UK pays in a net 8.6billion GBP, this figure is off-set in a myriad of different ways.

 

One example; the current UK economy is larger now due to the trade built up with the EU (because of free movement of goods) and with the rest of the world (via the EU negotiated trade agreements). Due to Brexit the UK economy is in danger of shrinking which will cause a significant cost in lost trade and hence less jobs/profit/taxes etc the cost of which will most llikely dwarf the 8.6billion GBP UK contribution. This will mean less money for the NHS, DWP etc, in effect less money for the needy and services in the UK.

 

There are so many other intangible, knock-on effects like this. If you don't believe me just read the articles below.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/brexit-backstop-won-t-clear-parliament-cabinet-said-to-be-told

 

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/eu-membership-costs-us-a-fortune/

 

Paul, it is impossible to have a rational debate with jimbo. He has all the answers and has told them to us many times apparently.

[Fosse69]

Brexit is a shambles. It was never explained that it was an advisory referendum, a glorified opinion poll if you like, but now claimed to be the will of the people set in stone. Surely the final decision should be the "Will of the people" whether it be an election or the 3rd referendum, since they will have to bear the results of a Brexit or not.

[Howjy04]

A question for anyone.Why are the 27 determined that we stay in the EU and everything that goes with it?

Secondly,as there are checks already in place, at the Irish border and technology is available to upgrade,why would the EU risk a return to the ‘troubles’by Insisting on a hard border?.NI and the ROI ,both,do not want a hard border.Do you think it’s about time that the EU listened to both parts of Ireland?The chief of police has stated he fears that a structural border would become a target.

[Howjy04]

Brexit is a shambles. It was never explained that it was an advisory referendum, a glorified opinion poll if you like, but now claimed to be the will of the people set in stone. Surely the final decision should be the "Will of the people" whether it be an election or the 3rd referendum, since they will have to bear the results of a Brexit or not.

 

If there was a referendum and to leave was the majority again would remain supporters accept it?

[Thevalefan]

Your so called 'free trade' costs us £8.6 billion, that's nett. It doesn't appear to be 'free' to me.

The sooner we're out the better.

By the way, please don't start asking questions such as 'what benefits will we have by leaving?' All these questions have been asked in the past and answered, many times.

I haven't logged on here for a while as Remoaners couldn't accept the fact that they'd lost and kept trying to make arguements that they were for some reason, superior and more intelligent, whereas in fact thay're just arrogant and conceited. Nothings changed.

 

Oh dear your showing yourself again as clueless £8.9bn is not just for trade, it's everything that goes with it.

 

Name me on country who has a 100% free trade deal with no costs for access???

 

You cant tell anyone any benefits - you just can't because there are none.

 

We come across arrogant and conceited only to deluded, niave and totally ignorant people. Don't worry about it though Jimbo - you can still pretend the pipe dream of Brexit for a few more months until we can wade in and say we told you so.

[Heatwave]

If there was a referendum and to leave was the majority again would remain supporters accept it?

 

Absolutely - as long as the electorate aren't fed the lies they were by the Leave campaign before the last one.

 

I think that given all the difficulties thrown up by impending Brexit and their implications they would vote Remain by a large margin now. Naturally, if even after all this has been pointed out they still chose to leave then they would deserve everything that's coming to them.

[whotobeakiller]

Jimbo, The UK's net contribution of 8.6 billion GBP must be weighed against the financial benefits of it's access to the single market and beyond. It just isn't as simple as the UK pays in a net 8.6billion GBP, this figure is off-set in a myriad of different ways.

 

If you want to look at things from that perspective, then also consider the advantages of not being limited to trading beyond the single market. Punitive tariffs are only going to hurt the Business people with the audacity to have jumped ship from the UK whilst in the EU as their operational costs and labour would work out cheaper. It hasn't stopped and will not stop firms from moving to poorer countries. This put our Indigenous people out of work...pushes them into low skilled service jobs with all manufacturing moving abroad. I speak from experience, it happened to me, at a car wiring harness assembly plant in 1999. That was 19 years ago-17 years before the EU referendum. How many people in manufacturing have lost their jobs in that time period? I think quite a few

 

 

One example; the current UK economy is larger now due to the trade built up with the EU (because of free movement of goods) and with the rest of the world (via the EU negotiated trade agreements). Due to Brexit the UK economy is in danger of shrinking which will cause a significant cost in lost trade and hence less jobs/profit/taxes etc the cost of which will most likely dwarf the 8.6billion GBP UK contribution. This will mean less money for the NHS, DWP etc, in effect less money for the needy

 

Low paid warehouse jobs employed by firms avoiding their fair share of Taxes. With the internet came Globalisation. It is not just the EU why firms enjoy the advantage of a 'Bigger market place'.

 

As for your claim of the DWP having less money. That is frankly laughable. People are already not having any money at all through the Unfair Universal credit system- it's nothing to do with the EU. In fact coming out of the EU saves billions and that is before we even start- some of that money can go to the Benefits budget

 

The NHS, UKIP suggested that people coming from abroad pay for their own health insurance and that still need to transpire to bring the NHS budget to stability. At the moment the NHS is suffering because of unlimited EU usage. Your logic to this is bizarre

[Fosse69]

If there was a referendum and to leave was the majority again would remain supporters accept it?

Less reason not to, since with the facts of leaving or staying would be known and a better informed vote would be made. Obviously with a reasonable majority of 60 to 70 %, similar to the first referendum in the 70s, it would make it acceptable to more people than with the narrow majority of the 2nd referendum. There will always be people who prefer to be in or out, but with a large majority there are fewer to complain.

[Thevalefan]

A question for anyone.Why are the 27 determined that we stay in the EU and everything that goes with it?

Secondly,as there are checks already in place, at the Irish border and technology is available to upgrade,why would the EU risk a return to the ‘troubles’by Insisting on a hard border?.NI and the ROI ,both,do not want a hard border.Do you think it’s about time that the EU listened to both parts of Ireland?The chief of police has stated he fears that a structural border would become a target.

 

We've been offered a Norway style agreement before and only last week Tusk offered us the Canada ++++ deal - so how are they trying to keep us in, when they're the ones offering us a way out... That (at the beginning of Brexit campaigning) would suit everyone. May was an idiot not accepting that deal, given how everything is going. Keep up with what's going on, your blind hatred for the EU is making up things about them now.

 

We knew red lines as we helped make them as members of the EU. Triggering A50 was cited as "easiest deal in history" by our Brexit politicians. Well, that went well.

 

EU suggested a "common regulatory area” for the EU and Northern Ireland, and that the “territory of Northern Ireland” (not including territorial waters) to be inside the Customs Union. This would mean that Northern Ireland would still effectively be inside the customs union, even if the rest of the UK was out. May said no as this was seen to break up our own Common Market. May then says we want to leave customs union and single market (two things, promised by leave campaign we would stay inside of). So because we leave customs union and single market, checks are required. DUP reject everything proposed. Outside customs union, they will check goods meaning a physical border is needed to do it. Or, maybe like Sweden/Norway with spot checks and customs "depots" close to border where vehicles/goods get checked (most likely). How can we be outside their customs union and let goods flow to and fro? UK has offered no solution on the 'backstop' which is why there is talk of a hard border. EU backstop offer is what I've said above, keeping NI in customs union and parts of single market. I'll concede this backstop and hard border has become a political football but the issue is real. However, this talk of 'technology' has not being formalised and presented to the EU as an option yet, so until we do that - how can they consider it when it's our perogative to deal with it as we're the ones leaving them?

 

How can you expect to leave all aspects of the EU but have products/people associated with EU markets passing straight over into UK markets/borders? It's against regulatory procedures (legal agreements).

 

What would you suggest? Just carry on as normal? (cherrypicking).

 

Maybe we should listen to N.I because they as a majority voted to Remain.

 

What makes me laugh is it was you yourself basically saying whatever pain the UK experiences because of Brexit - them ruddy euro foriegners will be hurt as bad, or even worse. That's been the attitude of British for ages "walk off sod em no deal" - the EU is playing the same game right now and already kept us locked in the EU until 2021.. Easy to see who's on top here. Brexit will dissolve the union in the long term. Maybe you should of thought about these things before instantly thinking Leave they are evil.

 

whotobeakiller - how do we save billions of pounds, when we are outside the single market and needing to replace the value it brings to us. We export circa £250bn to the EU and import circa 50+% of goods from the EU. All for nearly £9bn. Any investment firm or venture capitalist will tell you that's the best ROI you'll find anywhere.

Replacing that will cost more, than it saves. We are an intangible service based economy (80%) which is easily transfered (Aviva moving to Ireland a good example) and replicated elsewhere. 8% of EU exports come to the UK. We lose 750 trade treaties on Brexit day, deal or no Deal - so let's be honest it's going to take a while to get back to what we enjoy now. Benefits, the NHS and other social factors will be at the back of the que when Govt needs to support economy more.

[geosname]

A question for anyone.Why are the 27 determined that we stay in the EU and everything that goes with it?

Secondly,as there are checks already in place, at the Irish border and technology is available to upgrade,why would the EU risk a return to the ‘troubles’by Insisting on a hard border?.NI and the ROI ,both,do not want a hard border.Do you think it’s about time that the EU listened to both parts of Ireland?The chief of police has stated he fears that a structural border would become a target.

 

Possibly to dissuade others from leaving?

[jimbo57]

Paul, it is impossible to have a rational debate with jimbo. He has all the answers and has told them to us many times apparently.

 

as I said,'arrogrant and conceited'

[Jacko51]

as I said,'arrogrant and conceited'[/QUOte]

 

As opposed to irrational and prone to making unsupported statements???

[For Us All]

As opposed to irrational and prone to making unsupported statements???

 

The only statement you should be supporting is this:-

 

LEAVE - 17,410,742

REMAIN - 16,141,241

[Jacko51]

The only statement you should be supporting is this:-

 

LEAVE - 17,410,742

REMAIN - 16,141,241

 

Am I not allowed to have a contrary opinion on the viability of Brexit? Do I have to suppress what I really think just to please you? That's democracy is it? 67% to 33% didn't stop the Brexiteers. Why should I not follow their example??

[Thevalefan]

David Raab has said the Government wants the Commons "meaningful vote" on the Brexit deal to be un-amendable. No one will get what they want, you won't get what you voted for either.

 

Someone should tell him we're supposed to be a Parliamentary democracy not an autocracy. But then again, people are not allowed to change their minds in this country anymore are they - because changing your mind is undemocratic somehow.